EP125: How Changing His Mindset, Changed His Business With Duncan Farrow

Yeah. I'm Duncan Farrow. I own Farrow Built, which is a post-frame construction company. We build shops and farm buildings for property owners that are looking to upgrade their storage, protect their valuable assets. I've had the start of the business six years ago and didn't start out originally doing the post-frame with the business. That was my background and what I wanted to do, but we kind of did like a lot of people do where you do whatever kind of work you can find on Kijiji or Craigslist and whatever comes your way. And basically used to say, if you're going to pay me to do it, we can do it. So that's what we used to do. And we only in the last couple of years have focused down on niched into the post frame buildings again, the shops and the farm buildings and that sort of thing.

Yeah. So we're in British Columbia, Canada. So Enderby is where we're based out of, which is in the Okanagan.

Well, some people might, but...

Well, I think everything starts with mindset. So you can try and do all the steps to try and do the right thing, try to make your business work. But if you don't start with mindset, I don't think you're going to make much headway or it's going to be a lot harder. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, that's a great question, Brad. My mindset was totally a scarcity mindset. And also another mindset that's changed that I used to have was the mindset that our customers are always trying to screw us kind of mindset, which I feel like is really prevalent among contractors. Like looking at customers in a negative way that... they're out to get us every way they can and that sort of thing. So I used to have that mindset. So if there was any problems that come up and you have that mindset and you go into it thinking they're trying to screw you and instead of looking at it from the perspective of the client and how they see it, you go into it already angry and aggressive and create a massive problem that there's multiple times I can think of where there probably was no problem and I created a massive problem with the way I communicated because of that mindset.

Well, I can give you a really real example just from recently because some of our employees have that mindset. I've told them like, don't let it affect when you're buying with the company visa, you don't have that scarcity mindset. And so an example is we had the whole crew go back and fix a door on a job yesterday because when they originally purchased the track for the sliding door for a sliding barn door, there was two options at the hardware store. There was one that was half the price of the other one. So they bought the half the price one. And I'm talking like $300 versus $150. Like not. 20 grand versus 10 grand. This was 350 or 150. And they bought the cheap one. And of course, two weeks down the road, the client's having major problems with the door. And so now we go back and we fix it and we put the good hardware in, but it's a whole day for a crew to go down there and do that. And, and a couple other minor things, but the point being that if they'd used to spent the extra double the price in the beginning, the extra 150 bucks or whatever. They wouldn't have had to go back and fix it. So you think you're saving with that scarcity mindset and you're actually just down the road causing yourself more and more problems. And that's just one example. I mean, then it comes into play in your sales as well and selling stuff for too cheap because you're thinking, well, I wouldn't spend this much on something. But your clients are willing to spend way more than you would spend on it, potentially. And so bidding it for too cheap, getting into the job and you're... Three quarters of the way through. We got to get out of here. We got to get this done. We got to get this done kind of thing because you're running out of money on it and you want to get on the next one so you can get a little cash flow. And all that happens is you end up cutting corners because you're trying to get out of there and your client's not happy. And then you end up going back for something there. It just leads to so many problems.

Well, we've talked about it that, you know, if that's the way you guys want to spend your money with your own personal purchases, that's okay. But when it comes to us, like we produce top quality products and we don't buy the cheap stuff for it. We don't. cut corners to try and get out of there a couple hours early. What's really helped is I've recently hired a new lead on site and he drives into them every day. Like every decision they make is, is this the quality way to do this? Or are we like, we're an expensive, we're more expensive than anyone else people can hire or the most expensive buildings they could buy in the area. But That's because we want to pay attention to the quality and the client experience. And if we have a scarcity mindset, we're not going to pay attention to either of those.

Not enough, but yeah, we do work on their mindset. I mean, you can see the Rob report magazine here behind me, which is how I fixed my scarcity mindset. A lot was reading that and realizing how much money there actually is in the world. And one of our key employees. has taken like four or five of those home because that's something he's actively trying to work on and is reading them to, because I told him it helped me. So he's trying to read that and see if it helps him. So yeah, in that way, but I feel like we could be way more proactive and helping in that. But here's the thing. You can't pay your employees bottom of the dollar wages and then expect them to have a abundance mindset either because it's not even possible. Like if they're going to have an abundance mindset and you're paying them bottom dollar, they're going to go somewhere else. So if you're fixing their change and change their mindset, you want to make sure you can actually, you're actually going to support that change of mindset. Otherwise they'll change their mindset and that's going to lead them somewhere else where they can actually make the changes.

Yeah. Quickest, easiest way is it's a rich people magazine, but it's basically like, I don't know. Are you familiar with it, Brad, or no?

It's just, I mean, like the advertisements in there are like for yachts and like 200-year-old wine and watches that cost $400,000. And it's about like these health getaways you can go to. They'll have in some of them and they're like, you know, a few grand a day or 10 grand a day to go and do this relaxed thing where they feed you like. one piece of lettuce a day and you starve for four days and become a better person. And like, there's all sorts of, every issue has a different topic. Like the most recent one is like the best of the best. So it's just a, it's an extra thick one and it's going through like the best in every category. And the cool thing with the Rob report is it has prices beside everything. So you see like, wow, there's a pair of shoes. It'll show like an outfit for a guy. And it'll be like $15,000 pair of shoes, $5,000 pair of pants. It'll name them. I'm not familiar with those brands whatsoever, but everything's priced. So you go through and you're like, people are spending five grand on this and I'm scared to charge them five grand for this window in their shop or whatever. And there's people spending five grand on a shoe, you know? So it really helped me shift my mindset to realizing like there's a lot of money out there. And if I'm having trouble with it, it's probably because of me. and targeting the wrong people.

Yeah, I have. Like resetting what your zero is, basically.

Yeah. And I would say it's still a bit of a problem. Like that's still something I work on because I, it's totally something where you're like, Oh man, look at this. I can go buy this new truck or whatever it is you need. Or think you need. No, I get it. I can't say I'm definitely not an expert on that part. Yeah, that's something I'm working on myself as well. I've got the mindset shift. I just haven't, like you say, set a set point properly.

Yeah, it makes sense. There's something that kind of ties into that that I learned recently too, is like a ceiling almost set point where in your mind, like 10 grand a month or whatever is what gives good money. And as the closer you get to that, the more you'll like self-sabotage so that you don't make more than that. Have you heard of that?

Okay. That might be where I saw it. I swear I was listening to something too about it. It seems like whenever I see something, I just hear it everywhere. So that's probably what it was.

Yeah. What about the feeling of... I know there's people I've talked to that are, that maybe don't see it as not possible, but they see that as a bad thing. Like if they're going to, going to be making a bunch more than, than they used to make that are screwing people or ripping people off. What do you like? What about that side of it?

Yeah, big time.

Mindset obviously being the big one, other changes, I would say the second biggest thing would be trusting other people, which is another mindset thing. It all kind of tails back to mindset. You know, there's the saying that's really popular in the trades, but probably elsewhere too is, you know, if you want something done right, do it yourself. And that's all great and all, but if you want to grow or you want to ever do anything other than doing everything, you have to trust other people. But you have to put the processes and systems in place to be able to trust them. Because I've made that mistake too of just going, hiring someone and then here you go, you take care of this. And obviously it doesn't work out because unless they're phenomenal, if you're not supporting them. and you're just trusting them, they're going to mess it up for sure. So there has to be, with the trust, there has to be the support, but not the micromanaging, I have to do it myself, that's not support either.

No, definitely not. And I don't think you should ever expect that. I don't even know if you can expect to train them to do it exactly how you want it done. But you have to have an acceptable, it's not going to be 100% how you want it. So you have to determine, you know, where is that? Is that at 70% of how I want it or 80% of how I want it? And what am I okay with not having exactly how I want it? Because it's probably fine. And I think a lot of people get caught up in the, it's not my way, you know, it's the my way or the highway thing where it actually doesn't matter if they do it this first or that first. What matters is that the end product's good. And even if it's not as perfect as if you were there, there's a certain level that it should be at, like 80% of what you would do. And from there, anything above that is just a bonus if they can get it better than 80% of what you'd do.

Yeah, like they're identifying as a craftsman or a carpenter or framer or whatever it is instead of identifying as a business owner. Yeah, I would say that's a huge part of it. If someone asks me what I do now, I don't say I'm a framer. Like I say, I own construction business or I own Farrow built and we build shops and farm buildings, but I don't say that I'm a framer. And I, that's, that's interesting. You asked that cause I never really, I couldn't tell you when that shifted, but at some point in the last couple of years it has. And I don't think of, I think of myself as a business owner. I don't think of myself as a framer, which is. I know 100% is what I used to say I was. And for probably the first four or five years I owned the business, I would say that.

Yeah. Honestly, probably a lot of... Our employees do a better job than me at a lot of stuff. So at, like I mentioned, so everything shifted at the same time. So like I mentioned before of me, like the outlook I had of the clients are out to screw us kind of outlook where we don't have that now, whenever there's a problem or even anything they bring up. But if it's a problem, we try and look at like, how would we see it if we were in them and we'd hired someone like, how would we look at this? So I think that that's all changed at the same time. So it's hard to be like specific with one or the other.

Big time. Yeah. instinct as a craftsman whenever there's a problem would be you know there's a problem on site say you're say you're in partway in the journey of trying to become more of a business owner and the ceo or the founder of your company and not the guy out there doing the work but somewhere in that shift there's a massive temptation every time you know someone called in sick i got to be on the tools or someone, you know, we're, we're short three guys. We need to hire three more guys. So I need to be on the tools for the next month until we get more guys. That's like you say, like Jeff Bezos isn't like, Oh, we're down a factory worker. I guess I got to get out there and start packing boxes tomorrow. Cause we're missing one guy like there. So somewhere along the way, there's a really difficult time. And I struggled with it massive and Luke, who, you know, in our group, he helped me with it a lot. Because I would get this feeling of guilt. Like if it was super hot or it was raining and I'm like sitting here in the air conditioned offices plus 40 out. And I used to feel guilty that they're out there slugging away. And here I am just sitting here doing nothing. Cause in a trades person's eyes, like the office side of it isn't work. Like, yeah, it's not work unless you're out there banging away, slamming away, getting stuff done that you can physically see. And. It recently I've made that final shift where when people ask, what do you work? You know, are you working today or whatever? I used to say, no, not really. I was just in the office, but now it's like, yeah, I was working. Like, and I was talking to an engineering buddy of mine. He's like, he trades. People are all the same. Like all I do is work in the office. That doesn't mean I'm not working. Like, so it's, it's that weird thing of like we've, where we've been raised maybe that way. And if we come from a trade background, Where we think if we're not physically doing something, we're not building something, there's not something, you know, that we can see happening. We're not working. And that's kind of been like the final, maybe not the final, I'm still working on a lot of mindset stuff, but that's been like one of the latest things that I've, I can say I've actually totally shifted that so that I see this as work. Like right now I'm working, talking to you. And I don't feel bad that the guys are out building a building while I'm talking to you because I'm working.

Could it reap the benefits a lot sooner? Yeah,

Well, I've attracted a lot back that used to work for us. Because they see the big change. And they're like, that's a place I want to be. But I want to just make a point clear while we're still on that is that I work very hard. I almost sometimes feel like I work harder now because it's more difficult for me some of the stuff I do. Whereas I could go out and I can work 12 hours a day in the sun all day and that doesn't feel hard to me. But when I'm working here and it's like some days you're just like, okay, I got to get out, get a walk, like clear my head. there's a lot more mind work. So I just want to make that point that like, I'm not just sitting here calling this work with my feet up on the desk, chilling out in the office, drinking coffee or tea or having a beer or something.

I mean, if you want to see some of the stuff they say, just check out our social media, but like stuff like there's, you know, never worked anywhere else like this. I was doing a quarterly review the other day and we were talking about how it's unique culture here. And yeah, Dan said that he's never, he said, he's like, I haven't really worked somewhere. And then he's like, correct himself. He's like, I've never worked somewhere where people are this cheerful. And where it's fun to be at work. He's like, it's not... He hasn't even worked anywhere close. And I think they all pretty much can say the same thing.

it has. It's definitely a tight market for recruiting, but it's definitely helped. I would say it's helped more with retention than recruitment. And it just came to me because one of our lead guys is trying to recruit a fella. lives upstairs where he lives and he told him he told me that he told the guys like yeah the paychecks are just a bonus like we love going to work he's like the paycheck it's just a bonus you get at the end of the day kind of thing so that's kind of the mentality like how many construction sites are there where everyone's excited on monday morning to show up for work or sunday night they're like man i can't wait to get back not very many that's

100%. I mean, this morning I just came from our weekly review meeting where there's a form everyone fills out the end of the week, or usually people fill it out right before the meeting, but they get it end of the week and they fill out the Google form and then... The company buys breakfast for everyone. And we go over the form and it's got, you know, what went right? What went wrong? What can we do to improve? How was your week on a scale of one to 10? And at the end, there's a shout out to whoever, like, who do you want to shout out? And what are you shouting them out for? Like, what did they do to deserve a shout out? So I feel like that part of that really has played a huge part in keeping the culture. Because we had a pretty decent culture, even when I was on site. And what I was worried about is, as I got away from being on site that that I wouldn't be there to support that culture, but that culture has got better since I've been off site. And I think those weekly review meetings play a huge part into it. I mean, the newest laborer can put in this went wrong and this is how I think we should, what we should do to improve it next time. And we're going to read that and we're going to discuss it in the meeting. And then who doesn't get happy about getting a free breakfast? Yeah.

Yeah. Another thing we have on there is what did you teach someone this week? And what did you learn this week? And sometimes people can't think of what they taught someone like this morning, for example, Luke, he put in that he didn't think he taught anyone anything. And as soon as I said that, I was doing running the review this morning. As soon as I said that that's what Luke put, then the three guys were like, what? No, you literally taught us this, this, and this. And they brought up the things that he taught them. And he's like, oh, I never even really thought about that. So guys will actually, sometimes they won't be able to think about themselves, but someone else will point out, well, that's what you taught me right here. And then in that, what did you learn? That'll often come up too. Paul taught me how to do such and such. And they didn't like those questions at first because you actually have to think a bit about the past week. But I think those have been pretty good as well.

Good chance we'd be bankrupt by now. So no.

Massive. Huge. I was looking through some old invoices from a couple years ago just for kicks. And I was like, blown away at how little we were doing stuff for. I was like, at the time, I realized I wasn't making a lot. And I think if I look back on it, and like, I didn't even think about overhead back then. If I'd have thought of everything, I'm pretty sure I was losing money on almost every job we did. So yeah, we were not headed in the right direction. When I made the shift, I was getting pretty desperate to have to do that. I knew I had to do something and change something. And it's been like a full, whatever,180 compared to where we were.

Probably the biggest thing is, is definitely like you just brought up, like it all starts with charging enough. You can't do anything without that. And to be able to charge enough, you have to shift your mindset. Because there definitely was a small point of time where when we, I mean, we almost doubled our prices when we originally started taking coaching. And there was a point in time there where I was like, man, how am I going to tell people this is the price for this? And it would have been very easy to get one rejection and go, yeah, it's too much. We can't do it. But I made a guarantee to myself that January when we had no work, that no matter what, if we completely had no work because of it, I was charging at a 50% gross profit. I was bidding everything at that. And I would not deal myself down like, oh, I'll take a bit off to make sure we get it. I would not do that, period. And I made that deal with myself and kept it. And sure, there's jobs we made less than 50%, but that was bidding errors, not because we intentionally, we bid them at 50%. We just maybe missed something or whatever. But yeah, I didn't change. Even though at the time there was some time where it was like, we don't have any jobs booked. Like I should just lower my prices, but I knew it would just put me back in that exact same spiral. So that would be my takeaway for anyone would be to make sure. Like there's a very, there's a point there where you make the decision. And then there's another point where you're going to get rejected on a bunch of stuff. And it'd be very easy to go, this isn't working. It's not going to work, but just stick with it. And my mentality from day one has been, I'm just going to do everything. If it's someone I'm learning from, I'm going to do everything they're telling me. If they're at a place I want to get to, I'm doing everything they tell me. And if I, cause if I don't do everything, then I can only blame myself if it doesn't work.

Brad, I have a job coming up that we'll be getting a deposit on right away. It's legitimately sold, contracts signed, everything. It's three times. You know how you do double for 50% worth three times? Three times what our cost is on it. And there was a time when I thought there's no way I can charge double.

You mean I don't get that five grand when we're done, Brad?

Well, you tell me what's the answer.

Well, the one I've read recently that I've really liked is buy back your time by Dan Martell. Excellent book. And then anything by Patrick, Patrick Lenzioni. So he's got like the five dysfunctions of a team, ideal team player, a whole bunch of books. His books are such easy reading and they're solid. But yeah, buy back your time. I would recommend to anybody anywhere that has any sort of business. That's a hundred percent must read. It shifts your mindset. We're back to mindset again of hiring to buy back your time instead of hiring to grow your business.

You can find me on Facebook, Instagram as Pharaoh Built. You can find us there. I still, any messages that get sent to me, I'll get them. Or you can just text me 236-599-7079. And don't try and call because I'm always on stuff like this and I never answer. But if you text me, I'll answer.

Thanks, Brad.