EP186: Empowering Contractors: Navigating Building Codes with Glenn Matthewson

Yeah. So I'm very proud of my roots that I started at age 19 as a laborer for a home builder. You know, it's about as lowly as a place you could start in the construction industry. Just that's what I love about the construction industry is there are so many opportunities. So that's anytime I introduce myself, I like to say that first, just for any folks that are new to the industry or want to come into the industry, the potential is unlimited. You know, I'm very proud, I guess, rags to not riches, but, you know, going from being a laborer to now being a building code educator. So anyway, I started as a laborer back when I was 19. It was for a framing contractor. I started as a punch guy, basically fixing the inspector's correction lists, moving lumber, things like that. Learned the trade of framing and started framing homes. Did two houses as a subcontractor with another guy, just a two-man crew. And then I realized framing was really hard. That's the hardest work I think I've done in my life. So I went to doing custom decks. Anyway, I did custom decks and remodeling, and I just got to the point where I was ready for something different. So in 2005, I always say I turned to the dark side, kind of a little joke, and I went to become a building inspector. So 2005, I became a building inspector for Westminster, Colorado. Did building, plumbing, and mechanical inspection. All books studied with plumbing and mechanical. You know, I've never been a plumber or been an HVAC contractor. Anyway, I did that for... Let's see, about five years for City of Westminster. The recession came along in 2009, and I ended up shifting over to a plan review position, which was really good because now, you know, there's a big difference between the office staff of the building department versus your inspection staff. So I got to have that experience of being a plan reviewer and being in the office. I had to clean myself up a bit. That's the first time I've had an office job. I did that for three years, went back to inspection for five more years. So 13 years with the city of Westminster. That brought me to 2018. And by that point, I had, you know, I've always had a side gig. It's what I tell my kids. It's what I tell young people today. Like, I've never had only a full-time job. I've always had a full-time job and then a side gig to build me to the next move. And so I started teaching building codes and writing about building codes in 2007 for the Professional Deck Builder magazine. That's the first article I ever wrote was on decks and safety glazing, like tempered glass. in 2007. Now that's a professional deck builder is now like an insert into the JLC, Journal of Light Construction. But I started writing and started teaching back in 2007. I taught a deck code class for a local lumberyard that started doing a contractor event, which is neat. I still now almost, we're coming up on 20 years, I still teach at that event every year. So I started in 2007 teaching on the side, writing on the side. using my vacation time to travel for speaking events. And by the time it got to 2018, you know, that side gig had kind of built up enough that I was ready to make that big move and leave the city of Westminster and become a building code educator and consultant, which is what I am today. And so, you know, that really, by 2018, now I could focus. all of my efforts on what was my side gig, which is now, you know, my full-time thing. I started a website. So teaching live is the most fun and the most effective. I'm very much an extrovert. I like being around people and I like sharing directly with people. I believe in body language and tone and all that matters so much. But I was taking vacation time to do that while I was working for the city. So I was limited. So in 2012, I started exploring creating an online website where I could, what I say is I could clone myself into on-demand courses. So in 2012 is when I started buildingcodecollege. com and started taking all of my live courses and turning them into video education, pre-recorded on-demand courses, typical to what you might see in other on-demand courses. Mine are a little different, but... you know, with videos and practice quizzes and final exams and really, really a different kind of educational product than a live class. But that allowed me to sort of clone myself and teach more. You know, so I started that back in 2012. And then TikTok, you know, so how I ended up on TikTok. is I had been doing social media forever, you know, gray haired old man, social media, right? LinkedIn and Facebook, you know, with video and everything in a landscape position, because that's what I had been producing for the live classes and for the on-demand video. And so I would use the social media for marketing purposes. But every time I would teach at a contractor event, because I teach codes, I believe everyone should be learning codes, not just the government. The government honestly is the last. that needs to know the codes. They're not building anything, but that's a side story. So when I started meeting contractors, they're all saying, well, why aren't you on Instagram? Instagram is where we are. And I had set up an Instagram account and... that I'd had for years but hadn't been using. And I would notice people tagging me over there on Instagram. And I'm like, I'm not, it's very different. You know, in my education that's online, I don't put my face up. It's all just examples and pictures and things like that. And Instagram content is totally different. It's more personal. It's more like your face and your likeness. And then it's also got that profile kind of video, which I didn't have any content for that. So I'm sitting here thinking, man, you know, a big part of my of my clients, if you will, or my audience is contractors and they're on Instagram. Well, around that time, this was maybe three years ago. I don't know. Time flies. It might be. It's at least probably three years ago now. TikTok, you know, right about that is coming out, getting popular. And of course, you know, I'm at that age in life where. You know, a lot of my mentors don't want any of the new stuff happening. They just want to ride out the old way until they retire. But my I still got 20 years left, you know, in this career. So I was like, well, I need to be willing to look at some of these new things and not not be the old man yet. Right. So that's what led me to tick tock and think nobody's doing anything on building codes on tick tock. Home inspectors were over there. And anyway, I started using the tick tock app. and was blown away at the power of the video editing power of that app. Like all the cool things you could do. I haven't even, you know, all the filters and that crazy stuff. I was just amazed by green screen. Like, wow, that's incredible. So I initially started making videos on TikTok under buildingcodecollege. com because again, the whole goal was just to promote my actual product. You know, I never... going to be an influencer or something like that in building codes, nothing that you could monetize. So I start creating the videos on Tik TOK just as an editing app and then going and putting them into Instagram where people are tagging me and where, but what happened was Tik TOK started blowing up. People started interacting with me, started asking questions like the general public. And so next thing, you know, I'm like spending all this time on Tik TOK responding to all the interactions. Whereas Instagram, you know, like I was quickly like, okay, well, I'll put my effort over here. And that's, you know, my account ended up taking off, you know, like a lot of TikTok accounts. It's went through some waves. I don't seem to be able to break that hundred thousand follower. I'm at like, I've been at 99.5 forever. And there's just a little part of me that is like, I just want to see a building code social media channel, get a hundred thousand followers because there is not. Even the ICC themselves on LinkedIn, you know, only has somewhere like 50,000 or something like that. So it's just kind of neat to think that maybe the general public out there really wants to hear more about codes and not just through a regulatory experience with their building department. A lot of people feel like they have no empowerment. They have no, they just are at the mercy of their inspector. They're at the mercy of their plan reviewer. And they're like codes. codes or whatever the government tells me to do. And I don't like that. And so, you know, I'm encouraged by seeing the interactions on TikTok with the general public that, hey, if you come to them with a positive voice, not from an authority, like I'm an authority in terms of the subject matter as an expert, but I'm not an, I don't care if you do what I say or don't. I'm not, I'm just, I'm here to give people information, empower them with it. Maybe it helps them with their building department. Maybe they do work without permit. You know what? I'm going to teach them code and help them understand. So there's a whole bunch of rambling to kind of summarize, I guess, where I ended up on TikTok doing what I'm doing there. It was quite an unexpected experience that that app has been.

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Thanks. Thanks. It's, you know, I'm trying to be creative. That's what I'm okay. I'm happy and proud of myself to say is I definitely am trying to be creative with a subject that is otherwise very boring and dry. You know, before I started teaching codes, I attended many code classes and I still try to now, like for the first time in a long time at this Colorado event where I'm from, you know, I used to just be a student all five days. Back in 05, you know, then I started teaching and then I would get one class. They're like, hey, you can teach a deck class here. And, you know, but then as I've been doing that one forever, now I got to where I was teaching all five days, five full days, and I never got to attend anymore. So I'm excited this next March. I told the host, I was like, can I, I'm gonna have Wednesday off and can I, I'm gonna attend a class on Wednesday. So I look forward to that. But the point is, is. Not to not, I don't like to be negative. I don't believe in putting other people down to bring yourself up. So I feel uncomfortable what I'm about to say. But a part of who I became as a code instructor and who I'm trying to continue to become is motivated by seeing and experiencing what I don't want to be. And again, I, there are, you know. Anyone that's been in code classes knows some of the experience I'm talking about where I will fall asleep in a class and I love the code, but some folks just read you the book. And it's one of my lines I give in all my classes. I say, we're not going to do story time with Glenn. It's not like gather around children, let me read you a book. No, that's not education. So anyway, I appreciate you saying that. I've definitely had... Some of my creative ideas actually just fall flat on the face. And being I am passionate about what I do, I am sensitive to that. I have to admit, like, I'll be all sad for a couple days. You know, I've had to learn some thicker skin with the social media. But the haters have seemed to back off. Like when I was early on it, I was getting a lot of. of combativeness. And I don't get that so much anymore, not because I'm deleting comments or blocking stuff. So I think that's, I think that's been good.

It's tough because one of my lines is positive and proactive building code education. Because what everyone experiences negative reactive, right? It's reactive. The inspector has negatively failed some item of your job. So it's a negative experience and you are reacting to it. So I flip that with the positive and proactive. And I mean, you're not kidding. The drama is what brings you the views. But like, man, for what I'm trying to do, it actually, it's like, I don't want the, I don't want views if it's, if it's for that purpose, you know, like, so I, I, I struggle with that sometimes. One of the things I struggle a lot with is nobody wants to be corrected, especially not on the internet. And man, you guys have no idea. I could stitch. 50% of the construction related videos and add in some clarity where it's like, well, you know, a lot of times people present code and it might be correct, but it's what they're experiencing in one little town in one little state. And that the city is on the 2006 code and they're saying what their inspector told them. Right. And being someone that's been in that business, plenty of inspectors will tell you whatever they want, but they don't. always actually know what the real adopted code is. So, you know, it's hard because these people are proud of their work. They do better workmanship than I could do. I don't build anymore except for myself, you know, so my craftsmanship has gone downhill. So it's not like a contest between who's the, you know, but man, nobody wants to be corrected. So when I stitch videos like that, I have probably deleted more or have more in my drafts. than I have ever released because I try to be super thoughtful about not putting anyone on defense, not, you know, like again, not putting somebody down in order to educate other people. That's just, it's just not my style, but it makes it tough. It makes the social media stuff very tough.

You can, you can tell when someone commented. without watching the whole video. Oh yeah. Oftentimes. Oh yeah. You know, and a lot of times I haven't always succeeded at this, but I try to respond professionally, maybe sometimes a little passive aggressive comes in there. But I, you know, often my response is we found who didn't watch the whole video before commenting because the, you know, you do the hook and I've been trying to learn, you know, again, I'm not a social media. expert or invite bear. I already spend more time on it than I probably should. And that's just creating content, not learning like. all of the strategy to content. But I've been trying to learn these hooks and ways to take a piece from later in your video and start out with that and then pick it up. But yeah, it is tricky. And code is very controversial. And code, just that subject, because it's related to the government, I walk a very careful line in everything I do and how I talk about that. Because someone may be talking about code, and it's an absolute true story. to what code is from what their inspector is telling them where they live. And, you know, it's just like, I'm not telling you you're wrong, but you're putting that out there to the whole world. And it's not a universal truth, what you're sharing. But then I get corrected. I've had people from Canada hop in and say, hey, you know, you should let us know you're talking about U.S. codes. And it's like, oh,

I'm equally, you know, I try to put a flag sometimes in the but I just I forget.

All right, I'm trying, I'm pausing because I don't want to go off the handle. Like I could probably talk for 30 minutes on that.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm doing. So first of all, at this point, let's talk about, let's first hone this in to say residential code discussions, right? Single family homes. That's what most people are talking about on social media, not the high level. fire dampers in a high rise type three constraint or whatever, like keeping it simple to the international residential code and to homes. I would say right now, you know, the international residential code was created first published in 2000. And before that we had different. So that's the model code, right? That's, that's one thing a lot of folks don't understand is you see these titles like national electric code. International Residential Code. Those are just books written by nonprofit organizations, and they pick whatever title they want. And their goal is to promote these codes to as many people as possible. So like the National Electric Code by NFPA, they title it that because they want to target the entire nation of the U.S. People will make jokes to me about, you know, all the... the U.S. and the International Residential Code, just like the World Series for baseball. They think that U.S. is the whole world. And I love to respond back and say, actually, the international codes are adopted in other countries. I have books over here from Abu Dhabi and from the Caracon region and parts in South America. So ICC says international in order to try to promote to the whole, to everyone. Anyway. So these are the model codes. Anyone can be involved in creating them. I've attended for 10 years. A lot of the codes in use across the U.S. today I wrote just as a guy working out of his house. So it's created. It's this model code. Everyone can be involved. I call it collective lobbying. We can save that for another. Let me get on to the topic here. So U.S. governments, I'm a code historian. You can kind of see some of my collection behind me, but I am. I am straight up a building code historian at this point. So I do a lot of research there. And, you know, historically cities wrote their own codes. And then we started getting model codes about 100 years ago, but there were four different folks writing them. So across the country, they were looking to different models. You know, earthquake was heavy in your West Coast. You had high rises were a big discussion in your Northeast code. And then you had hurricanes and humidity really popular in your Southern codes. So come to the turn of the century to the 2000s and these organizations merge into one and they're now promoting one residential code to all governments across the United States updated every three years. Well, these governments, you know, can they could write their own codes if they wanted to still. But. getting to landing the plane of this 30,000 is at this point, all 50 states in some way are utilizing the International Residential Code. Now, some states do not adopt a state level code. Historically, that's not normal. That's a newer, more modern thing in like our generation, our timeline here, where some states are putting the code at the state level and then they allow jurisdictions to make it only more restrictive. but not less restrictive. There's different rules for every state on how that goes. Some states don't adopt a code at all at the state level, like Colorado, where I'm at. So we still have counties in Colorado that have no adopted building code whatsoever. We have other counties that have adopted anything from the 2000 to the 03,06,09, like still today where government inspectors are working from an 06 code. The point is, All of these governments at this point start with the residential code, the International Residential Code, the IRC, and then they make changes to that. But here's the thing. There are popular subjects that are commonly changed. And there's a lot of subjects that, again, as someone 20 years in the industry, the governments are not changing these topics. They're changing things that are controversial, sometimes things where the code. There's some controversy in some of the recent codes. That can be another discussion. But some governments see that and they go, no, no, no, no, no. We're not doing that. We saw how that got put in the model code and that didn't seem right. And they amend that out. Like fire sprinklers is a big one that gets amended out. A lot of the new energy code stuff in the 21, not a lot, not all the governments agree with it. So some of that gets amended. Stair rise and run. Stair geometry gets amended heavily because of our historical buildings and the old steeper stairs. So there's subjects like that that you know, like someone like me, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's probably an amended subject. Or that's something where it's changed recently. So you might be on an older version of the code and you don't realize that's changed. My message to the contractors is this, to summarize, to give some guidance. I teach. the model code. I do consulting in local codes and I do other things. Sometimes I do like special classes where I'll adapt. Like New York, I do stuff for them where I will, I adapt the class to the New York amended code, but that's just because of certain clients. But what I tell the contractors is this, you are a professional in construction. You are a home building professional. Why are you letting the government be your ceiling of your professionalism? Right. If you were all into hot rod sports cars, you know, which I'm not. So I don't I'll give silly examples. But if you were all into like hot rod sports cars and and turbos and all this like newest modern technologies of like sports cars, you are going to know all of that stuff. You're going to know the modern technology. You're going to be up on the latest new cutting edge innovations in sports cars. Now, when you go drive your sports car in some city across the United States, you also now need to know what the laws are and then stay within those laws. Right. You're not going to limit yourself. If you were a gearhead all into sports cars, you're not going to be like, well, we don't have to talk about anything over 75 because the government limits you to 75 miles an hour. Right. that would be embarrassing. Like don't come to the, to all your buddies car show and start talking about government laws. Like you're supposed to know. And that's what I tell the contractors. Like, dude, if you work in a place in Colorado and your building inspectors are looking to the 06 code because that's what's adopted. Like, that's nothing to be proud of, man. Like, don't tell me what the inspector, like, dude, you, you don't know your profession. 20 years of modernization. So what I try to like empower and uplift the contractors with is if you want to be a top notch construction professional in single family houses in the United States, you might want to know what the latest, what the, like, here's the most modern stuff going on in the discussions about single family homes and what's being promoted out there to governments to say, this is the modern knowledge right here, the IRC. And we think these governments, you should use this. If you then wait for your, you're basically waiting for the government to lead your progression in your profession. You're waiting until they adopt the next modern code and then tell you, here's what's changed in your profession. Like, I wouldn't want a doctor that, you know, like, or a mechanic or like any other professional. It's like, no, I don't want you to just be led somewhere by the government. So that's my... Advice to the contractors out there is, yeah, learn the modern code and then wherever you go work, follow the laws, like whatever those laws might be. And your chances are be far ahead. People online talking about code is this, code is that. I think I got off of your original question. Forgive me. You're fine. Here's the, so I don't want to sound like a jerk when I say this, but whatever. It's so often, often. I will say something about code, teaching the model code. And someone replies back, well, here we have to do X, Y, Z. And I politely say, hey, where is here? City, state, for my own curiosity. And they'll tell me. And in about five minutes, I go online. I find the adopted code with amendments in that exact city, state. And what they're saying is wrong. But what they're saying is what the inspector told them. And no offense to my colleagues in the inspection industry, but a lot of it can be kind of an easy job if you want to make it easy. You show up, everyone's kissing your butt, rolling the red carpet out for you. You get to work your eight-hour day. A lot of times it's like, oh, I didn't get to all my inspections today. Well, I'll roll them over till tomorrow. Be damned the contractor's schedule. And so a lot of inspectors. They have not cracked into the code book in ages. Their city adopts a new code and they don't jump in and learn all the changes. So when people are leaving their inspectors to be their teachers, guys, that's not their job. Their job is not to be your teacher. Their job is to have your back. But too often folks put the inspector in front of them to be the lead. I'm going to go where the inspector takes me. And now you're putting your professional level of knowledge and understanding of your profession that I want you to be proud of. And you're going like, nah, I'm just going to let the government like nine to five guy work in the, you know, he gets great benefits. I'm just going to let him lead me. Let me stop you

this is an important topic.

Yeah, it's, Here's because that question comes up a lot. And I mean, I've been there. I've been a contractor with a business knowledgeable. I still know like I'm working under a permit right now doing a septic installation on my property. And I'm now having to get inspections, you know, from the inspectors and stuff. And so here's the first thing I say. Sometimes if you're in business, like I understand I am a proud professional. I want professionals. to be proud of what they do. I think construction workers should be freaking proud. Like that old saying, if you're going to be a sweet streeper, just be the best damn sweet streeper this city's ever seen. I'm a believer of that. So I want proud construction professionals and tradespeople that know their job and are proud. Okay, that's being a professional tradesperson or a profession. But now you want to make business. money. You want to make a living. You want to make money in your profession. So you got to take your profession and you got to turn it into a business. And now you have to start making business decisions. And that's what I always say to contractors. I am here to empower you as a professional. That's my lane right here. I'm not giving you business advice. That's probably what you, that's what you're good at doing. But what I recognize is sometimes a professional has to make the business decision to say, I'm just going to do what this inspector says. You know, I'm going to change these hangers out. I'm going to change this. I'm going to fix this thing. It'll take us a couple hours. It'll cost us a little bit of money, but not as much as it's going to cost me. If I respectfully and try to stand up for myself or try to, you know, now educate the inspector and then, then are they going to give me retribution and I'm going to be the last inspection the next day? Are they going to start spending extra time to pick me apart? Are they going to turn it into like a, you know, a pissing, I don't know what the more mature word for, you know, a pounding chest battle between egos, because that is not a good business decision. Like as a business person. That's not going to help you make money from your profession. So in a nutshell, I understand that. Like I like if you have to make the business decision to say, Glenn, thanks for teaching me. You've empowered me. I'm a bet. But you know what? I'm just going to kiss this this butt over here. Do what this inspector says. I hate doing jobs in this particular town. It's the only one we have this year. I'm just going to get through this and move on. Now, never do that. If you're going to make like a sit, like if, you know. the inspector is leading you to do something bad, something that you know better, and you're like, that is not okay, then those are times you would want to say, hey, look, like, dude, I'm not doing that because that's dangerous, right? But if it's something where it's just like, oh my God, I am not required to do that, but this guy is making me, but whatever, then go forth and do that. Business decision. Now. Before making that business decision, I feel like in any aspect of life, going to the grocery store, going to get your fishing license, I don't know, any aspect of life where you interact with another human, it's important to kind of, I believe, like, you know, read the people, not make judgments of people, but we all do it. From our experience, our past experiences, we all judge people initially by, hopefully not by how they look. But sometimes their mannerism, their character, how they hold themselves. Did they show up to the job and say, good afternoon? Wow, you guys are making some progress. Or did they show up to the job already ready to show you who's boss? You've got to read those people, man. And you've got to first know and get a sense. Like, is this the kind of professional? that is going to act like a professional or are they just acting like they got an easy inspector job, they get to go tell everyone what to do and no one ever calls them on the carpet? And then again, you have to make that decision. So hopefully you are coming across more polite, respectable, decent people, human beings in the profession of building code authority, inspector, planner, viewer. We hear the stories of the bad ones. Because we're human. That's what we do. We share our bad experiences 10 times over sharing our good experiences. So I assure you there are more good people out there in the role of inspector. A lot of them are good people, but also feel over their head. The codes are enormous. No inspector can know all of these codes, but yet the community. You feel like this expectation that you're supposed to have every answer. You know how scary it is to pass a job? Like new inspectors are always afraid to just pass first time on a job because they're like, aren't I supposed to catch something? My job is to like find something. And it takes some getting comfortable in that position and with yourself to go, no, like, yeah, you passed. Great. So you've got to read people. And, you know, there's no sense in trying to approach. I don't know. I'm sure there's some saying for it not coming to mind, but there's no, it's not worth trying to approach a total jerk with like a flower being like, let's be friends. Like sometimes, you know, people are who they are. And so that's something that they have to read. But otherwise I would say to the contractors recognize that most of your inspectors, a lot of them. don't know everything that they think they know or that they're presenting to you like they know. And I'm not knocking them for that. It's a little bit of an overwhelming job to be in. People expect you to have an answer for everything. And some folks will try to give an answer for everything out of their own insecurity and a little self-protection. They're not trying to be jerks. They're trying to give you an answer. They're trying to be that role of community inspector. And then sometimes, you know, the contract, it's like, That's where an opportunity for a knowledgeable contractor to say, hey, that's interesting. You know, I really believe in building codes. That's like what leads my, I mean, it's a big part of my profession. So I make an effort to really understand these. And I was just feeling like I was noticing something. You know what I mean? Like trying to, if you approach every inspector that you want to.

Exactly. But if you approach them, the ones that you want to challenge. as if they have like, like purposefully are trying to make you do something.

Yeah. Don't approach everyone like that. Approach them that like, they might just not know. And they might feel like they're supposed to give this guidance and try to approach them, you know, as a student, but also as a professional, like, don't, you know, don't go up with your, you know, your. I don't know. Sometimes that business decision is to feed their ego, but I'm kind of done talking about that example. Right. And the other example, don't, don't walk up with your head low and your tail between your legs, like be proud, be have a code book sitting there, like, you know, approach them with confidence. If you do know your stuff, but not in a challenging way, just in like a two professionals discussing it. And. It's more about the people than it is what you know or what they know. I hate to say it that way, but I mean, I'm old enough and live long enough to know that a lot of the issues between human beings aren't about the issue. It's about the people trying to discuss it or how they go about discussing it. You know, the interaction, not the subject.

But you made a professional, like we're going to work on having a professional relationship here, friend.

no, definitely. And, you know, and part of what I would add to that, which some people may not like is, Hey. If we educated the home builders and if they cared about like what is right and what is wrong and if the bricklayer was like proud, a proud bricklayer, which I hope they are because my gosh, I tried to do brickwork in my house. It took my whole summer just to break in one door opening like damn that's respectable work. Anything people are doing. I think all work is respectable. If that bricklayer was like proud of themselves and you know, and like, yeah, I'm going to make money doing this, but I'm also the best damn bricklayer. There is no inspector is going to tell me my weep holes got blocked. Like I know what I'm doing. Well, then you wouldn't have an inspector to be able to tell people that, you know, so like part of it, I feel like you can always come back to some way. I always put the responsibility. I'm big about personal responsibility and professional responsibility. So I can have those discussions, but I always have to add. But in a world with no inspectors, don't we still want brick houses? Well, then don't we want brickers and house builders that know how to give us a good brick house that's going to last forever? That's the one thing I love to say. Like, we still are going to need these buildings if we didn't have a government to have our back behind us, right? But yeah, that's a great example. And I do that whenever I teach. Like most of my teaching is to the building code authorities because that's where, I mean, that's where the money is. I'm on this big effort to get everyone else empowered and interested in codes. Maybe there's a business decision there. Maybe I'll open a whole new market up. But, you know, most of the work in it is for the government folks, for the people that are the inspector, the ones being funded by their employer, the building, the government, you know, to go get more education. And I tell them the same stuff. You know, I'm just as hard on the inspectors as I am to anyone, you know, in terms of, you know, putting the responsibility where it lies. I tell those folks, you are a servant. You are a public servant. You are there to help these folks. So if you're going to make a call like that brick thing, it better come from a place of help, of service. And if it's not coming from that place, you need to go get another job. And I will look, I mean, I guarantee every class I teach, I piss off some inspector because I kind of call them out of like, if you're that guy, you know, you're that guy. And I'm telling you, get out of this business because we don't need you going to people's homes for any, any motivation other than to serve them and to help administer. It's one thing I learned years ago when I first started teaching from one of my mentors in code, I would refer to enforcing the code and enforcing the code and enforcing the code. And at lunch, he pulled me aside at lunch. He's like, hey, Glenn, I was sitting in the back of your class and man, I noticed you kept talking about force. Like, why do you want to force all these people? Why are you coming right out the door saying I'm here to force something? He's like, I challenge you to change that to administer. Administer the code. Administer the code. Because that's what you're doing. You're managing and administering and helping manage the code in your community. You don't have to force the code on anyone until they say, no, I'm not fixing that. And it was such like an interesting, like, I will never forget that moment and rest in peace to that mentor. We've lost him, sadly. But that's a message I try to get to all those building. Stop calling yourself enforcing the code. Why are you enforcing it? No one is resisting you yet. Why don't we wait? Why don't we just talk about it? And anyway, so little things like that, I think, really matter. And that's how I talk and teach the code folks. Like, I always am referring to customer service. And I will tell, here's something to add as someone inside this industry for 20 years, that I'm not the only one talking that way. More and more, we're seeing a shift in the code industry from sort of the good old boys club a little bit. You know, code was simple, didn't change as drastically every year. You know, to now, I do see that building departments are shifting their attitudes to more of a customer service attitude. I've been requested recently to teach some customer service skills for inspectors, like a full day class, not on code, but on how to not be a jerk, basically, like how to work with your community. And ICC has books they publish on like inspector soft skills. So there is a movement that way that I'm just happy to be a loud voice in that movement, trying to encourage that. So hopefully that brings some hope to folks. But I mean, with that, you also have a lot of new people coming into the code industry that didn't come up from the trades. You know, historically, a lot of building inspectors were old, retired tradespeople. You know, that's like me. I came from the trades. But more and more and more we are. we're seeing a major increase in code professionals, inspectors, plan reviewers, permatex, et cetera, that don't necessarily come from the trades. And that's not a bad thing. You know, we all have different experiences and we all come from different places, but it does. You know, there is sometimes it takes away sometimes a little bit of understanding of what the contractor is going through. So I would also, you know, warn or mention to contractors that like, yeah, you know, you might be finding in the future more inspectors that are actually more by the book. And so the benefit is they've actually updated to the current code. They're actually going to cite. what's actually adopted because they're there. They don't have years and years of just, you know, resting on their laurels or whatever the saying goes. But at the flip side, that's going to challenge these contractors where you've been used to some inspector hasn't opened a code book in ages. He's got certain pet peeves that you already know he's looking for or she's looking for. And now you may get a newer inspector, a new blood coming into the industry. that does know the code, that goes to the book, that looks at the adoption, and you're going to equally be as totally, you know, taken off, like, well, they don't understand. That's not how we do things. And I would say, well, maybe the way you do things is changing, you know? And so just finding some mutual, like not disrespecting each other, you will find framing inspectors that have never framed a house. But if you go into your interaction with them, They're just some dummy that's never... They're going to see that in you. Because as an inspector, the same stuff I'm telling contractors about people, same thing I tell inspectors. You can show up and you can tell right away the contractor that isn't interested in learning a damn thing that you're trying to help, that doesn't care, that doesn't see you as help, that just wants you in and out and stay out. And you can tell. So both sides have to learn how to be... how to be human. Yeah.

Yeah. I will tell you hands down, if I got a permit to build my garage again, if I got a permit to build myself a new garage or to finish a basement and I was going to do the work myself, and I mean, I know that's what I do with codes. I would absolutely... not be ashamed or surprised if an inspector found something and wrote it up. Because that's the point of having someone have your back. Like we're all human. We can all make mistakes. We can all overlook things. Sometimes the closer you are to something, the less you can see it. You know, whereas if you're a third party and you show up and you haven't been in this project for months and you're stressing the client's needs or, oh my gosh. Cost of materials have gone up or it's a DIY and like, oh my gosh, you got to finish this in time for my daughter's wedding or whatever. You're so full of all this other baggage and issues that you can miss things that are like, you know, you know this. And that's the point. That's the whole purpose of it is that third party to come in and have your back to just catch you if you fall. How many times have you walked and not fallen? Like 99% of the time, but sometimes you slip. And that's where the inspector should be there. So it's an unfortunate in that respect of like that inspector, I'm not knocking them. Maybe they have a really busy day. Cause believe me there, I could talk all about the difficult, like, yeah. And so maybe they're like, Hey, cool. I'm going to just pass this and move on because I trust these folks. And I get that. Like I would base how long I spend on an inspection based on my historical experience, either with the project. with that model home particularly, or the builder? Absolutely. But to not even look around at all just to say like, hey, did they slip somewhere? Like the best of us can slip. Like we gotta be humble enough to admit that. That's where I don't think that inspector is really, you know, giving the service the way they really should. Because that goes back to what I try to say is like, I believe in the perfect world. Every one of these professionals, electrician, bricklayer, everybody is proud of what they do and already know. And like, I'm going to do the most badass job I know how to do. And then the inspector is just there to be like, hey, did you fall? Did you slip? Let me catch you. But that's not how it is. It's the opposite where a lot of people are like, you know, just. do what the inspector says and he, Oh, that inspector is going to catch you on these things. Better make sure you have that in order, you know, cause you're hoping to get that in and out inspection, but it defeats the whole purpose of having a third party to protect you. Like as a home builder, it's like, no bro, I want, I want you to have my back. Like, come look at the house. Like you're here to help me and I want your help, but that's not how we have. That's not how the industry is. I'm a crazy man even just talking.

Yeah, and I would hope the electrician would want to know. Like, hey, man, did you know this changed? But it's such like it goes back to just like how we go to defense immediately, like the nicest, friendliest electrical inspector. And maybe they just, you know, updated to the next, you know, the 2023 NEC. And the electrician just doesn't hasn't yet learned something. They're a great electrician, but there's just a little change that happened. I hadn't yet learned it. It would be great if the inspector could be like. Let me enlighten you to this change. And then the contractor, the electrician, the professional is goes, Hey man, thanks for enlightening me to that change. Now I know thanks for failing the job. And you know, now I know that like, that's just how it should be. But the problem is like, when I try to give, when I try to correct someone on social media as polite as possible, no one wants to be told they're wrong. No one, people, I feel like our culture, like maybe I'm, I feel like we're growing in that direction where it's harder and harder to critique people because everyone gets all offended now by critique. And it's just like, dude, I'm, it's not right. You know, like it's constructive criticism. Like, is that even a word that people understand these days? Because, and especially with, with the construction industry.

Yeah. And you know, going back to something you said earlier, And I've had a story in my mind to share, but I'll share it now. You know, it was like, what do you do when you get to that inspector that is like, you have to do this, blah, blah, blah. And you're all night like, hey, but yeah, I'm so excited. I just took all these classes at buildingcollege. com and learned and look, section R309, blah, blah, blah, actually says, look, isn't that so cool? Like, cool. And then that inspector says, well. That's not how we do it in this tent. That's not how I do it. So, you know, if you want to pass this inspection, you're going to do what I tell you to do. Because that was kind of that sort of you had brought up that type of inspector and I hadn't yet got to addressing that one. So here's an example. Here's a story, a quick story. As a consultant in code, there's a never ending amount of things you can consult with, right? Like you're helping people with some situation in code. One of the ways I get a lot of requests is contractors and designers ask, you know, well, let's specifically when the contractors ask and say, hey, XYZ inspector hit me with something and I've showed him the code and he's fighting me. Can you help me with this? And so I've done a couple of consulting projects like that, you know, for fee based where I research the entire thing and I produce a very professional report. that breaks down what happened into like, you know, and coming with my credentials. So I did that for this contractor in California. He was a deck builder. Decks are something that I'm very well known for. But he had built a bench seat built into the guard assembly. So, you know, an elevated deck, more than 30 inches above grade, needed a guard for fall protection. And I used to do it as a deck builder. We'd build fixed seating in. You'd have a bench with like a back, you know, and it's all built into the guards. The 2009 IRC came out with a requirement that said, if you have guards with fixed seating attached, you have to measure the minimum guard height from the seating surface. And the concern was because children jump up on a bench seat and they run around there. And then, you know, if it's 18 inches to the seat, it was typically 18 inches to the back. And now that's a 36 inch guard. And so the arguments, hey, these kids are on here now with an 18 inch guard. And so the code changed in 09 to say that you must measure from the fixed seat. It didn't go over so well. Like, that's really, I mean, it in a way almost just prohibited building in guards, because otherwise you would be 18 inches plus 36 inches. You'd have like a privacy wall. So anyway, that come around to the 2015 IRC, actually coming from Colorado Chapter Group, those code officials, inspectors, put in a proposal to get rid of that and to say. We can't, right? Like, you need to parent your children. The building code, we're going to try to protect children. But look, a bench seat is not for walking on. And so anyway, building inspectors said that's an overreach of the building code. We're seeing people now just build independent seating and then putting it up against the guard. Well, now you just have a bench people a kid might run on that might topple over and even further contribute to the kid falling over. It was discussed patio furniture, blah, blah, blah. So anyway. 2015 code changes, and that is out of the code. And it has never come back in the code, by the way. It's never even come up for discussion again. So that's what the contractor is dealing with. They're getting hit by someone saying the guard can't be, the guard has to be 36 inches off the bench. I do my research, you know, for hire, and I find the exact California code, and then I find that local region's changes to the code, and they had updated to the 15 pretty recently. Recently enough that this permit, because I also looked up the permit, the permit was under that period where this jurisdiction was on the 15 code. And they made changes to the 15 code. So I put all this in my report saying, hey, this was a rule in 09. It's not a rule in 2015. California State and your local in California both reviewed the 15, made changes they wanted to make to it. and didn't change this to put it back in the code. I mean, it was a smoking gun. The inspector has nothing left at all. Like, I mean, done. And the contractor wrote back and said, thanks a lot. Didn't help me one bit. Inspector said, nope, doesn't matter. And so to be honest, that's the last consulting I ever did for a contractor after that point. Cause I was like, well, I got paid and I gave them good information and it still didn't help them. So I don't want to do that work anymore. Like it felt dirty, you know? And so I gave up on trying to help in that situation. And so I don't know, I guess in some ways, that's the message here is like, man, that is a really tough situation. And that's where you have to make a business decision. If you are working in that community and your business is 100% there and you can't get jobs elsewhere and just like, well, I don't work in that city. then you might, it might be worthwhile. Maybe this is a new inspector. It might be worthwhile to go up the chain and take that kind of thing, unfortunately, to the building official. A lot of building officials will support their inspectors. They want to support their inspectors, but they're not, a lot of them will say like, nope, that call was wrong. Because the building official, if you give them the code, You know, like I say, they will often go, yep, you are correct. But now, again, now you have to see that inspector again who knows you turned him in or whatever. And so there's all those kind of things you have to consider. I personally am a believer of calling out BS in this world when we see it. My wife hates that, too. Because, I mean, in social settings, like, I'll call it out, you know? Like, I hope I don't get shot someday. You know, I don't do stupid stuff. I'm not picking fights with people. But I do think. We need to come back to a society where we check people more often. And so when it comes to that, like I would lean to, you know, if you're being abused inappropriately by your government, one particular government employee, then, you know, sometimes that's worth going, I'm not going to take this anymore. But that's a decision everyone has to make for them for themselves.

Yeah. Well, thank you. So I have on-demand courses available at buildingcodecollege. com. And you can look at that website. There's every on-demand course listed in the catalog. The thumbnail image to the side of it is the full video of the first video of every class. It's not like an edited. It's not like a trial thing. You don't even have to sign up. You just click that. If that video was lame to you or not good, then don't sign up for the class. If that video seemed like, hey, this could be interesting. And some of those videos on some of the classes are upwards of 40 minutes long. Some of them are a lot shorter. Every class is different. So there's a place you can get some free videos. Those are videos that I don't have on my YouTube channel. Building Code College dot com is a good place to just find me. You can you can reach out to me via email on there. You can find my bio and my story on the instructor page. And then I have links to all of my social media and YouTube. I write for Fine Home Building Magazine in every edition. It's the Know the Code column. There's one edition in the summer. The middle of summer edition doesn't have it. But all the other six like regular editions. have a know the code column. Next one coming out, here's a little sneak of what's coming. It is all about smoke alarms, smoke alarm locations. So that's a good place where I put a lot of, fine home building. I mean, that's a great product we produce. The editors over there, they're great to work with. And then I teach, or I write for ICC. So if you're interested in deck codes. I developed and helped with a group of other folks develop all of the DEC codes for the last 10 years, starting in the 2015 IRC. And I write ICC's book on that. It basically takes the entire IRC and it cuts out just the codes you need for DECs. And then recently, I'm in a new author for the IRC Essentials book. And that's directly targeted to contractors or like the big target for that book. It's called IRC Essentials. And it's a very boiled that like it's I don't know how to describe it. It's the essentials. Yeah, I see. And it's really targeted to new code officials or contractors. But I'm taking over that publication, updating it to the 24 edition. OK, awesome. And then I teach live at a number of places. If you're in Johnson County in the Kansas area, I've been teaching for the Johnson County contractor licensing event. pretty at both of their events every year, as well as webinars. I'll be there at the end of October. If you're a member of InterNACHI or ASHI, the two big home inspector organizations, I have taught for both of those organizations and likely will in the future for various ones. So you can find me at those kinds of places. And then if you're involved with as an education committee on whether it's you know, designers, contractors, home inspectors, building code, and you, you know, and you are part or you know someone and you can have some influence and speakers you'd like to bring out, well, that's how I go to places is by being invited to them. So certainly, I'd be happy to be invited to any of your future, you know, conferences going on. Yeah, I mean, if you search my name on the internet, You can pretty, you'll, you'll, you'll be able to find me. You'll be able to find me, track me down.

TOK and Tik TOK. Help me get to that a hundred thousand.

at 99.5 forever. I tell you, I'm starting to get those Tik TOK conspiracies in my mind too.

yep. It's building code college. com. Okay. I mean, if you search building codes on TikTok, I'm pretty much dominating. I don't know what that means, but hey, it's fun.

A book that I'm reading or that I would recommend that's not code?

Boy, let's see. There is, I'm reading a book called It's About Time. I read, I don't read fiction. Fiction equals false. Yeah, I don't read fiction. Everything I read is not. Oh, same here. You know, trying to learn and better myself. But it's called About Time by something matters. And I have it right over there. But it's about time. It's about better time management. Okay. And things like that.

Now I can tell you plenty of code books to read.

Thanks for inviting me, Brad. Awesome.