EP200: Visual Storytelling: Elevating Your Brand with John DeMato

I can, I can give you a point of clarification on that, my friend. So once upon a time I was in fact, a videographer, I was, uh, television field producer for a talk show for the maury show for nine years and i shot thousands and thousands and thousands of interviews and then when i quit the show and then i started on my own i was a hybrid I did some video work, some testimonials, behind-the-scenes stuff, covered some events, as well as doing headshots. And then I realized that at a certain point that my heart was leading me towards just becoming a full-time photographer. And when I say my heart, I mean my body, because carrying video, carrying photo equipment is already heavy. Carrying video equipment is twice as heavy. And at the end of the day, I'm... I got tired of it.

It's obscene. How much metal and cabling and power generators and all this other crap that you see. It's unbelievable. Yeah. And it's not light.

I put one of those on once. A friend of mine is a professional Steadicam operator. I put it on just for the hell of it. And within five minutes, I was completely exhausted. I'm like, you're out of your mind, man. But it does look pretty. I will say the footage looks absolutely gorgeous.

No.

It's. The level of sophistication in terms of logistics, coordination, and timing is it's like in Goodfellas when they walk into the Copacabana. I don't know if you saw Goodfellas,

that shot is not 10 minutes, but it is definitely a couple of minutes and it's going through tight corridors and in the kitchen, going through hallways. I mean, to put that thing together takes a monumental effort for sure.

I'll give you the one sentence definition. Let's keep it simple for now. Visual storytelling is the process of proving what you say is true by how you show up in your photos. So for the people that I serve, generally speaking, they're experts and they speak on stages. They write books, consult, coach, train, all of those different things. And for them, it's important to be able to back up the words in their content, the words on their website, the words that come out of their mouth by showing their audience what all of those things look like. You know, if they say, for example, I'm a $25,000 keynote speaker. Well, what does that look like in photos? How do you prove that by showing that in photos? You say that you're a trainer of different companies and teams and organizations. Well, where are the photos that prove that? Because in this day and age, you know, in this digital age, we're so inundated with noise online everywhere. all the time,24 hours a day, seven days a week. And the only way to kind of stand above the noise and create distinction within your particular market is by creating this opportunity for people to see what it is that you can do for them and not just talk about it.

It's not that it's not good enough. And in fact, I would tell you that that is important to do as well. The thing about that is when you're looking to create a level of. perception in the minds of your audience that you are the go-to authority. One of the ways to do that is by actually enhancing and amplifying your visuals by investing in professional images that capture it from a different vantage point. There's more aesthetic value to the image because when someone comes across it, they're going to have a certain reaction to it. Now, the photo that you have, You just mentioned when you share that and you share a first person perspective of that process, that's good stuff as well. Not as well as, but in addition to that, when you have professional images of the same thing, in addition to a wealth of other types of images that correspond to that particular build or remodel. Now, all of a sudden. you're giving yourself the opportunity to be seen a little bit differently, and especially where you use these images. So whereas your photo with the smartphone photo shot would be great for something online on one of your socials as a, you know, kind of a progress report on what you and your team are working on, on your website, that's where you can put... the high quality images, and that will create a much stronger first impression with those that you serve. And they're coming to qualify you. They'll be able to see all that stuff. So everything has a place when it comes to visual storytelling, the professional photos you invest in, as well as the smartphone photos that you take on your own.

And I would also add to that, Brad, that it's not just the final, final piece of it, meaning, okay, everything's done. Let's take a picture from a couple of vantage points and show off the craftsmanship, the quality of the materials, the overall ambiance of the set and setting. So also every single step of the way. Show your people how the sausage is made. Give them a sense of that process because this is exactly what... They want to know what they're getting into because as anyone knows that has gone through a remodel or a straight up rebuild of an entire property, it isn't exactly going to go like peas and carrots. There's going to be some hiccups and some steps along the way. It's a process. Therefore, if you actually capture what it looks like before and not just before and after, before, during and after. Now you have a really, really interesting opportunity to share that story with potential clients down the line. And then when you layer in some first person experience from your side of the conversation, as well as from the client side of the conversation, now you're truly painting a much broader picture for your audience of potential clients to be able to truly qualify whether or not you are a fit to be able to take on the project that they are looking to hire out for.

I think based on what we just talked about earlier, the answer is both. Okay. You know, the onus can be on you. to capture a smartphone photos of you and the team doing different things across whatever that project happens to be. And then you have a photographer come in and capture that set and that setting. during the process at key touch points to be able to get that for say the case. Basically I was laying out a case study before, uh, in terms of the before, during, and after your commentary, their commentary, all that stuff put together in a big bowl mixed together and you have something that's really impactful. I mean, that would be my kind of suggestion with regards to how to handle that because, you know, this thing could take a couple of months, could take a year, God knows how long it's going to take. So for you, it would be important to just stay top of mind with people who are following you with the photos that you're doing. And then occasionally you splash in some high level shots if you want, or just save them for the website and for other bigger, for pitch decks or for pitches to, you know, potential clients. And then all of a sudden, now you have a real, a real comprehensive image portfolio.

These are, they're candid lifestyle images. Capturing the moment. And the answer to that is, I mean, if I were the person that were on site, I'm capturing everything known to man that's in front of my face because all of those moments matter when it comes to putting together a comprehensive visual story for, you know, your audience. And at the end of the day, you know, you capture a couple hundred photos in an hour span, you're not going to use all of them anyway, but why not have the opportunity to be able to leverage these images in one way or another? Because, you know, if we're photographing members of your team on the build, you know, those images can come in handy, not necessarily for that particular project. But it could come in handy down the line when you're looking to be able to share another type of story with your audience. And, oh, wow, I have this image of someone doing something and I'm able to use this. So it's better to have them than to not shoot them at all.

I would. Only for the simple fact that, you know, it's important to have that mixture so that you always have, you know, at the end of the day, when we're talking about visual storytelling, the two big things that really are the, you know, the assets of having this comprehensive image portfolio is having a diverse image. diverse images from shot to shot to shot to shot. That's the visual variety. And the reason why you want that visual variety is because that creates creative latitude for the team that is implementing these images across every single touch point of your online presence, not just social and not just your website. but everywhere. And if you take the time to invest in these kinds of images, that sends a signal to the market that you actually care about this and that you're putting forth an effort to truly give them that real insider look into what the process looks like and that you care enough to put that out there in a way that's going to grab their attention.

Yeah. Well, the truth, I mean, I don't even have to answer that because it pretty much answered itself. The truth is experts hire experts for a reason. I mean, how do you know which saw to use or what glue to use? I'm, by the way, I am completely useless when it comes to building anything. It's embarrassing. Fortunately, I have some form of a talent with a camera in my hand, so I'm okay. But that's what I'm saying. Like, even my brother, my brother has built a whole bunch of things in his house where he lives down in Florida. And, you know, you go into his garage and he's got... a wall of all of these tools. And I'm like, what the hell are you doing with all these things? I have no idea, but that's the thing. It's when it comes to you and what you do, that's your magic trick. When it comes to what I do with the camera, regardless of where I am, what time of day it is, what mood the person is in front of the camera, we're going to get something magical out of it because there is a time-worn process that I have built over years of shooting thousands upon thousands of people that I understand how to get to the important stuff, how to get to the good stuff really quickly, regardless of the variables that stand in my path. In the same way that you do that with building stuff and creating something out of nothing or creating something better out of something that's in disrepair. You know, it's just what we do.

most important part about visual storytelling or just storytelling in general is to have a plan, have a strategy, which ties into. the schematics and the plans that, you know, where your brain works. If you look at it from a very systematic approach, I would argue that you would have a much easier time with telling stories visually because before anyone gets in front of my camera and I don't care what I'm photographing, it could be a person, it could be a place, it could be a thing. There is a comprehensive strategy call that happens before that moment happens. Because if there is no strategy, we're just flinging stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks. Now, granted, for someone like myself who has some years under his belt doing this, I can figure it out. But with that being said, I would not do that with a paying client because we want to ensure We want to ensure a certain level of expectation is met and in all occasions exceeded. And the only way that you can ensure that those expectations are met and exceeded is by knowing what the hell you're doing going into the situation. For me, if I were to, say, come aboard for a six-month build, renovation of a house, I would have a litany of questions, not just for the contractor, but also for the family that owns the house. Why? Because these images have more flexibility than to just be used. by the contractor. They can also be leveraged for various personal reasons for the family themselves. So I would want to know, well, first I would focus with the contractor and understand all of the different stages. that go into getting the house from where it is to where it needs to be or plans to be. And then that way that will help dictate the types of photography, the focus for that specific day, that specific week, whatever it happens to be, be able to plan out systematically. How many times I need to be on site and shoot these things? How many times do I need to photograph the, um, the team doing the work? How many times am I going to photograph the space empty in, uh, at a particular stage? And then that way there is a very long itemized list of things that need to be photographed and not just what needs to be photographed. but approximately when it's going to be photographed so that there is no hesitation and there is a clear focus. And then on top of all of that, that's when we add in what I mentioned before, the visual variety to offer creative latitude for the team to be able to leverage these images, as well as for the homeowner to be able to leverage these images while I'm in the room photographing these things. So it's an involved process. It is not, you know, snap your fingers and it's done.

Well, no, I mean, at some point you will have to call. I mean, I shoot a lot. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. I did a four-day. mastermind event recently and I shot over 7,000 photos and I delivered about 17,1800 photos. So there is, but that's not something that the client has to deal with. They don't have to look at the out of focus shots. They don't have to look at the eyes closed, the mouth doing something completely wild and outlandish. All that stuff gets thrown out and then whatever is kept is then sorted into a logical subfolder system so that when they look at these images to be able to implement throughout their online process or their other marketing materials, they're not staring at a folder of 1,700 photos. I don't think I know one person in the world that would ever want to look at a folder that has that many images in it. So it's on the photography. to be able to... ease the overwhelm when they look at their images by doing it in that way.

And guess what's going to happen. They're not going to use the damn pictures and that's the biggest sin of all. Yeah.

One of the biggest problems, you know, we talked about. The internet just being completely noisy. And it's important to create a clear signal by using these high quality images that not only reveal your process, but when we're talking about the people in the images, we want to share aspects of their personality and who they are. And in the case of your audience, the level of craftsmanship, the level of detail, the level of effort. that they put into their work. We need to see that stuff. Your audience of potential clients needs to see that. But we don't want to just see three or four photos of that repeated over and over and over again, every single week and month, because then it gets boring and it becomes noise. So the way that you break through that is with visual variety. referring to is when you look at the portfolio of photos and you're flipping one by one by one by one, essentially what you want to see is a portfolio that dances. And by dancing, what I mean is wide shots, medium shots, closeups, the main information of the images on the left side of the screen. Now it's on the right side of the screen. Now it's in dead center, but it's wide, medium, close. It's in color. It's in black and white. The angle is changed. The perspectives are different. That's all the nerdy photographer stuff. But in terms of the impact that that nerdy photographer stuff has on the audience, the viewers of that image is massive because it's compelling and interesting and it's revealing. That is what you want to do. You want to keep people hooked into your world long enough so that when they need someone like you to be able to help solve their problem, guess who they're thinking about? You.

I'm glad you like it.

That's a hundred percent. For example, I have a family house along with my brother, right? And it's currently on the market. But prior to that, we had remodeling done on the first floor, which then became the staircase to the basement, which then became some other stuff on the second floor, which then became the roof, which then became the breaker. Well, the electric's different and the roof's different. But point being, we had a massive amount of stuff. that was done. And from the very moment that we did the initial teardown of the old school 1970s paneling, which was quite emotional, I must admit, when I was breaking down the last drop ceiling panel out of my old room, I took pictures of everything. And what I did was exactly what you just talked about. Wide shots establishing through the doorway. Detail shots of the light switch, the molding on the floor, the radiator before we painted it, the chips all over it, the windowsill, the brokenness, the out-of-date that, all the way through all three floors of the house. And I did it for my own purposes because once we sell it, I'm going to create something for myself and my brother. But I also shared it. with my contractor. And I told him, do whatever the hell you want with this. And his response was, I've never had anything like this before. This is really, really interesting. And now I'm going to be able to use this in a whole slew of marketing materials. And actually, Brad, that ties me back to something you said before. We're talking about websites. Absolutely. You're talking about websites, but you also mentioned social before. Social is also important. But one of the things that I would challenge you to think more critically about, because I'm not as well versed in your world as I am in the community that I currently serve, but I would challenge you to think where else. In the journey, the client journey from they see you on the internet, they're following you and they're engaging you to the phone calls that, you know, to a site survey, to a proposal, to this, to that, over and over up until the point where you say keys to the new locks on the doors because we changed everything. God bless. Where can you use images within each of those touch points so that it makes. it impresses upon you even more the importance of having these professional images as well as mixing in those smartphone photos. Because I'm pretty sure there's a lot more than just those two main places.

That's home base. You always have to take care of that website. And by the way, I really like your idea of creating that collage because what you can do is, you know, if you're creating like a slideshow, for example, with the buttons on the sides where you can go forward and back wide shot. close-up of a detail of something to the left, medium shot, next shot, then go to a close-up of something on the right, then go next shot, go to a wide shot, and then rinse and repeat that flow because instead of just slapping in images haphazardly with no plan or direction or whatsoever, you're now creating an intentional collage of images that not only show the details as well as the wide vistas in that particular space, but you're putting it together in a way that creates a natural beginning, middle, and ends, not even to just the property as a whole, but to each room specifically. It's organized, and it's really going to be able to help people visualize what this process would look like in their own world, which only helps to be able to help sell you to them as the solution to their problem.

You could use the customer. You could also use stand-ins. I mean, I like that idea a lot, especially towards the end when everything is all said and done and buttoned up. That would be great. But you bring up a really interesting point about the yes and photos to the build, the process itself. When thinking about how you can promote your team, The other idea to think about is who are the key players within your team? What do they look like? Where are their photos? And not just in action, but in terms of promotional materials where they're looking directly into the camera, like a headshot or a wider portrait. It would make sense to include the key team members. It would also be interesting to showcase what your process looks like when you're not on site, when you're looking at those blueprints you mentioned before. having it laid out and thinking about it, you know, showing those kinds of things. When you fill in the gaps of every piece of the entire journey, as I mentioned before, in that way, whether it's on-site and off-site, now all of a sudden you're giving people that really, really vivid picture, that really detailed story visually for them to... truly understand not just what the process looks like, but why you are the expert in this particular space in that particular market.

Well, yes, it is because... you have the ability to fully control them as opposed to people who own the place and they're going to want to do their own thing. What I would say about that though, Brad, if you do invite in actors or stand-ins to do these kinds of images, it would be in your best interest to anonymize those people. Don't necessarily show their face. You show their hand on the coffee mug. You show the back of their head looking out at the window. And the reason is because unless if it is the actual owner, homeowners, yeah, you can show everything there because that is their home. But if it's not, this gives the opportunity for you to leverage these images in a way that allows your audience to get a feel for what it would be like to be in a brand new kitchen that your team just created. And it helps them visualize it. You know what? Maybe even it might not even, it might just be easier to just do. I'm brainstorming this with you right now. I'm thinking about it. It's like, you know what? I would stick with the anonymizing philosophy regardless. It could be cool if the professional photographer shot some portraits of your clients intentionally looking into the camera in different parts of the house because those photos, A, are money in the bank for them, and B, they're absolutely valuable assets. for you. So everybody wins. And, and that's the other thing that I would say about this in the same way that I photographed my house for my own purposes. And then in the process decided to want to share these with the contractor, you can hire the photographer, get all of that stuff, and then you can give those photos to them and they can have them for their own personal use.

A hundred percent. And here's the cool part. You would be able to regardless, regardless of the cost of a photographer going along on that journey to be able to do this, you can always build it in and it's never even noticeable.

No, no. What you would do, this is akin to when in my world, a professional keynote speaker, they have a full fee gig. They can afford the rate. I am just basically a rounding error in this case, and they want to bring me in. But then I see from their pre-planning meeting with the organization that hired them to come in and deliver that speech, I see the room. And I see that it doesn't really look interesting. I have told people more often than not, this is not the right gig for you to bring me in. We got to wait for the right room. And in the same, it's the same philosophy for you. We need the right home, the right commercial property, the right whatever. It has to look right in order to make the investment of your money, in your case, the marketing money to be able to make sense for it.

No, no, not especially not for a long term journey type of thing. Yeah. But that's the thing, though. What's the cost of not having this? What's the cost of just riding with those smartphone photos? Sure. It's going to speak to certain people, but it ain't going to speak to everybody all of the time.

Yeah. And I'll add to that, Brad, which is when you're in a service industry, we are both in service industries. What we're trying to do is build relationships with people. We're not just trying to be transactional. But in order to build that relationship, you have to capture their attention. And if you charge a premium rate, you need to look the part. You need to look like a premium solution. And while those smartphone photos absolutely can get you through for a lot of it and those TikTok videos and all that stuff. You always have to remember, since you are in the business of building relationships, you need to understand who your audience is and what they're going to react to most. And you laid it out chapter and verse versus a subcontractor doing something real quick versus I work with high-end folks that have luxury homes, multimillion-dollar projects, or multimillion-dollar homes with expensive additions and renovations. You can't just simply slap something together and hope that it gets their eyeballs into your world on your website, scheduling a consultation call. I mean, you need to put in the work and your visual storytelling needs to be commensurate with the level of expectation that your audiences have.

same dream, same team, bro. We're good to go, man. Yes, that's exactly like.

Yeah, exactly. You're not going to get them past the point of, are they going to deliver on their promise today? are they going to be able to forget about over delivering just straight delivering. And you never, ever, ever, ever want them to even have that thought for a second. So you might as well invest and bite the bullet and really put out some stuff that will leave them with minimal to no doubt that you are going to be able to handle whatever. they, uh, their specific needs are that you can, uh, take care of them.

It's a matter of perception. And it's a matter of proving what you say is true. based on how you show up in your photos.

Well, what I would suggest is... find someone that has some experience in doing this and not just shooting for the real estate side where they set up and shoot these pretty photos and like add in a bunch of lights and, or they have just, uh, you know, a couple of examples, make sure that they are, they don't necessarily have to be a specialist, but they do need to be, uh, well experienced and well versed in visual storytelling that they have the ability to be able to tell this, uh, this story that creates that image portfolio that dances with that visual variety that we talked about. Like. For me, for example, after photographing my house, I have zero hesitation with the idea of being able to do this for someone else. Because at the end of the day, when you are experienced in visual storytelling, when you are used to photographing a beginning, middle and end and capturing all of that variety, all of that stuff translates. So, you know. Finding someone that's experienced in that world is paramount. I wouldn't even just necessarily look at their website, but I would ask to see one of their... full projects that they deliver to a client so that you can feel comfortable in knowing that they're going to know what to look for. And the other thing to look for in terms of the right photographer is do they conduct a strategy call with you? Because if they just show up and make things happen, that is a red flag in my mind because they're just winging it. Whereas if they sat down with someone like you and how long is this project approximately? And what are the specifics? Talk to me like I'm a five-year-old. What are the specific stages of every part of this particular project? Where do you start? Where does it go? How does it end? And then that way, through that call, they will be able to put together that very comprehensive shot sheet. In terms of price, one of the things to keep in mind is while it might be some sticker shock for you, understand the bigger picture. How much money do you think that this is going to help lead you to bring in based on the fact that every single touch point of your online presence just shot up about 10 points? You know, and you have this ability to be able to visually impress someone because of the fact that you have a wealth of images that showcase how you've done the same type of work for other people before. You did it at a high quality and you did it recently. So these are the things to keep in mind when shopping for the right photographer for these particular types of projects.

She's got the fancy camera. Don't forget that part, the fancy camera, because it's all about the camera.

I appreciate you having me. This was fun. Awesome.

Oh man, I just photographed books, man. I don't read them. It's okay. The book that I always suggest when someone asks me these types of questions, one of my clients who is also a good friend of mine, his name is Phil Jones, and his book is called Exactly What to Say. Oh, yeah.

Are you kidding me?

Awesome. That's awesome. I have to look.

Really? Yeah. So everybody already knows about how to stop counting conversations and to make conversations count. Good, good, good. It's not a book that's just about how to persuade people to get them to pay you. It's not just a sales driver. It's a book that has multiple applications across every single aspect of life. And if I were to ever, when I am asked what book to recommend, that is always my number one.