EP28: 3 Things That Cost You The Sale

You know, I can talk with such authority on these three freaking topics right now. Guess.

Because I've been, I was real good at these three things that lost the sale.

I was so good at these three things that, It would blow your mind.

Okay. So the three, if you just want them all, you want to just give them all in once? Like you want to hang them on for a minute? What if they get the three and they're just like, okay, cool.

No, nevermind. I'll just give it to them because you told me to give it to them. All right. So look, self-promotion, tech talk, and assumptions. Those are the three we're going to talk about. We're going to dive into them right now. Let's start out with self-promotion, Brad. Tell me all about you, your business, how long you've been doing it. how many awards you won and how tall you are.

Yep. Like you almost used my total word track from my sales for 10 years.

Your sales technique sucks. No, really, but let's talk about this. In the past, like an old school way, that was probably a good way to set the stage because there wasn't social media. But the problem is... We've talked about it before. A lot of contractors today were brought up in the industry by old school contractors that still use that technique, but new school doesn't necessarily need that anymore. Self-promotion is kind of out the door because they've already vetted you. They've already done the social proofing on that. We've said once a thousand times, but it's really important because contractors still make the mistake day in and day out.

You never had to do that, did you? I did do that. No, you didn't.

I literally, that's how I used to do it. Going with the portfolio, walking, and then you have to promote. Like you have to self-promote. But I mean, we don't have to do that anymore. Dude, this reminds me of a story. I don't remember the exact story because I'm probably going to screw it up. But there was a woman in the kitchen and she was doing a specific... a particular style, like doing something in the kitchen. Right. And then someone was like, Hey, why do you do it that way? And she's like, I don't know. I've always done it this way. Like my mom told me. And then she's like, I got to find this out. So she went to her mom and she's like, Hey mom, why do we always do it like this in the kitchen? And she's like, well, that's just the way we always do it. That's how my mom told me. And so they're like, we got to catch grandma and find out why this happened. Right. So they go in and ask grandma, like, why do you do this? And she's like, Oh, cause we didn't have very much money. And that's how we, overcame some certain things and that's why we do it the way we do. And so like, we don't need to do it that way anymore.

I'm not comparing myself to like grandma and grandpa. I'm not that old. I mean, I'm getting pretty old, but literally that's, that's the philosophy of, of the way some of the contractors do it. And they have to like wake up, smell the roses and go like, wow, I got an Instagram page. I have, you know, a lot of reviews that. people check on anyways. And I have all these things in line and people can check me out. So I don't really have to do that unless people say, hey, well, can you tell me about how long you've been in business and some accolades that you might have that help me understand who you are? Then you can kind of lean into it a little bit, right? But it just doesn't have to be done anymore.

Well, listen, I'm not going to say you can't be in business and get it done, right? But you're just not scaling. I mean, I don't imagine anyone who has that mentality even knows what a freaking podcast is, so they're not listening. But that is the old school philosophy and mentality. But you know, I want to talk about this for a second. I know some contractors, you know, those guys that are like, they're one uppers, you know, like they're one uppers, you know what I'm talking about, right?

Well, I mean, you, you 12 inch up me all the time. You're 12 inches taller than I am.

So, but, but that's the one upper mentality is like, if someone's like, oh yeah, you know, I went skiing and, and, um, you know, big bear. this year. And they're like, well, I went skiing in Colorado and Utah and California this year. Like, okay. You know what I'm talking about, right? I know exactly what you're talking about. Have you ever seen a contractor do that to their client? It's freaking hilarious. It's so funny.

I think it's hilarious. I mean, because it's so stupefying. But there are one-uppers that are contractors. that one-up their clients. And that's probably why they lose a lot of sales. I bet you their closing rate would go up if they'd stop one-upping their customers in a call. I mean, it's legitimate. People screw this up all the time.

Right. And they'd listen. That's the problem. One-uppers usually do all the talking. Yeah. They interrupt you to like, oh yeah, well, I did this.

Well, you know, I've been thinking about both. I thought about stain, but I think painting is going to be better for...

But my wife kind of likes the paint. So I was just thinking...

Well, but my last house had stain and like it just seemed dark in there. I'm kind of worried about it being too dark.

Well, this is going to lead us right into tech talk. Because a lot of times, I think this is a perfect segue into tech talk. Because tech talk is not, you're thinking computers and like iPhones and Androids or whatever you use, Brad. I actually use an iPhone, Brad.

Now our customers really know who is who.

So you're saying if I move to Indiana, I'm going to have to get rid of my iPhone? Yeah. I'll never move in Indiana. I'll tell you that right now. Look, the segue to Tech Talk. And it's not about technician computer stuff. It's about technical... aspects of scope of work. Like just how Brad was saying, it's like, hey, well, I recommend that you do the stain instead of the paint because of this, because of that, because of whatever. Or vice versa. You're going to have other contractors that are leaning towards paint and they don't want to do the stain. And you know, what's really, really funny, Brad, is the reason that they're leaning in those directions might be purely because, hey, my guys aren't that good at paint. They're really good at stain. Or I think I make more money at stain instead of paint. And I like staying personally. I think about this with waterfall guys all the time. I'm going to build a waterfall the way I want it, the way I like it. It doesn't matter what they want. And they get all technical, technician stuff. That's what I meant, technician.

True. That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought about, but I can definitely see that happening for sure.

Yeah, then you can go down a total rabbit hole right there.

Okay, start over. Sorry, I apologize. We're role-playing.

Yeah, we actually have a skimmer. I actually invented it. I have a patent on it and everything. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. It's a patent. And I did it in 2012, and we sold them across the nation. And people really like them. They're easy to maintain, and it just takes care of the surface of the water. When wind blows and the debris falls in the pond, it comes over and sucks it right up, and then you'll be able to just clean it super, super easy.

What was I supposed to say? What was I supposed to do?

shit. See, there's a problem is I don't even know how to tech out. I don't do it anymore.

Okay. Okay. Let me go back into it. Okay. So yeah, the skimmers that we have, they're super killer. They're powerful. Normal skimmers on the market, they only have about an eight foot of diameter that they can actually pull water from. But the skimmer that I invented actually pulls 12 to 14 feet. And with a couple of jets that we strategically place in the pond, we can even create better influence there. We can do flow rates from 2,200 gallons an hour to 8,000 gallons an hour. And we can really design whatever we want to around the whole pond from this particular skimmer. That's a great question. I'm so glad you asked.

This is not how I saw this podcast going down.

Right. I was going to kind of take us down that road and then talk to people about what that means. Because, hey, well, what kind of windows are you using when you redo this kitchen and you put the windows in there? What kind of windows do you use?

But what brand is it? Is there a certain brand you use?

No, we're role-playing.

yeah. Yeah. Anderson's not really... I'm kind of against that brand, actually. Because they're... Yeah.

Well, I was hoping to use Pella because I have stocks in Pella and I don't have stocks in Anderson. So I was hoping that you could use Pella.

They're not going out of business.

This is so screwed up. We can't even role play wrong. This is not cool. No, but that would be the thing. It'd be like, hey, what brand do you use? That's a great question. That's interesting. Why do you ask? Because you might find out some information, but you go so deep into the tech talk like, oh, I'm going to tell them all about the brand that I use and how long I've been using them and how I'm their top installer and da-da-da-da, right? They might have a really particular reason they're asking that question if you don't like kind of... pause and think about it and understand why they're asking the question, you might just run into tech talk because you think that that's what they want. And they really don't want it. They don't want to hear that kind of stuff. Some clients will. And when you realize who that client is, then you can kind of dive into that. And that's when I just go like, hey, Brad, I'd love to give you as much information you want about the skimmer and the flow rates and all the technical stuff about it. But, you know, and then you can... If they go, yeah, I want that, then you can dive deep into that technical part of your job, whether it's a window or a skimmer or the type of wood that they want used on their place, right? But I think most contractors have the, they just, they assume that they want the technical stuff and they just dive into it.

For sure. And most people, not just contractors, but people don't like that void of conversation. They don't like that silence. And so people will technically lean into that silence and talk because they feel like they got to... fill the void. And so that's, that's all the contractors understand is to like lean into technical stuff and, and make themselves, it goes back to self-promotion. If I talk about enough technical stuff, it's self-promoting me and how smart I look. And that's actually what I did when we were doing that first original role play. I went into self-promotion mode instead of the deep technical talk. So I was just going the wrong way. I went back into, oh, it's my patent. I've been doing it for this long. I'm this good. I'm that good. Instead of going, oh, well, cool. The thing's 36 inches tall. It's tiny footprint,19 inches in diameter. Going into that technical stuff. So I screwed that up and I just realized that. But...

Yeah, for sure. And dude, this is really cool. The cool thing about this podcast, like if only two people listen to this and they stop it early because we screwed up our role play, then that's cool. But what really is the benefit of this podcast as it comes out is talking about selling past yes. And that's one of the tools of the trade I think we should need to talk about in the Profit Club and like kind of build on that. But it's what's really... What's horrible is when a contractor really has the prospect on the hook and they're ready to buy and they don't even realize it. And then there's still tech talking and that that's selling past. Yes. It's like, Hey, I just want to buy, but you're too busy. Just keep telling me about how cool you are and how technical you are and how smart you are and how long you've been doing it. What size screws you use. And the other contractors will use this size screw and the dead on and on and on. It's like, dude, listen, just, I, I just want to buy. Okay, just like shut up. And like, what's next? You know, I don't want to hear that anymore. It happens a lot.

I mean, that's part of assumptions, right? I mean, that's the last one we were talking about. And I kind of was leading into assumptions a couple of minutes ago when I was talking about what contractors are doing wrong. They're assuming things. But that's exactly it. She just assumed that you needed a bunch of information when it should have just been like, hey, we're doing both sides. Or we're only doing the outside. Did you have a different idea? Was there other information you needed?

Oh, I think he wants more information. How long is it going to take? She probably went all technical.

What kind of sandpaper are you using? We use three different sizes because we got to go rough to get the old finish off and then we start to... grade it down so it's super smooth, like a baby's bottom and blah, blah, blah, blah.

So that goes back to the selling past. Yes, I think you were like segueing into talking more about that. The story is like, hey, okay, it's going to be, you know,900 bucks to paint the door. Great. That's cool. You're going to refinish it and everything. Are we doing the inside and the out or just the outside? You know, I just want to know. And then all of a sudden she's wasting 15 minutes of my life. Going over, I'm just like, oh, I don't want to listen to this girl. I don't want to listen to this lady. I just need to know inside or out. Depersonality comes out hard and I just want to know.

Well, yeah, in your case with her, it is. But I guess the prospect, the homeowner, it's like... If they're like, okay, cool, I'm good with the 900, that's cool. Are we doing the inside and out or just the outside? I just want a yes or no. And they could dive deep into technical.

Assumptions is long. You know, the old famous saying, if you assume you make an asset of you and me. Everyone knows that, right? Or is it just because I'm old?

I make an ass out of myself all the time.

saying. Okay, ass. But I mean, literally, that's the whole thing. I mean, I always remember that. They circle the ass and they underline the you and they circle the me, right? It's amazing. Hopefully, like one person will learn that for the first time ever on our show. I doubt it, but... people assume a lot of things. And so this is going to tie into understanding the why. I mean, this podcast was really when Brad and I were kind of talking, it's like contractors really screw up the why. And I think they screw up the why because they talk about themselves too much and they get into the technical talk too much and they make a lot of assumptions. And then like you've wasted a bunch of time, whether it's over the phone or in person and you don't understand or have any inclination. as to why the customer really, truly needs the project done, and which is super critical and important to know. And so we're just making too many assumptions. I mean, I used to all the time. And so we really have to have some self-awareness to overcome all three of these, but especially assumptions.

I hope I don't fuck this up.

Yes.

I don't know if I can do this. I've programmed myself to not make assumptions. You didn't even prep me for this. I screwed this all up, Brad.

The assumption is the person's cheap and they're getting a bunch of estimates.

How long have you been in business?

Okay. I understand where we're going now. I think this is helpful. This is good. Yeah. I think I can get better at this.

Wait, I screwed this up again.

Okay, I know where this is going. I know this person's going to be cheap. They want it as cheap as possible.

Well, I mean, that's a good assumption as well. We're getting ready to list the house, but I'm like, oh, this person doesn't want to spend any money. They're dumping it. This is not their forever home. Right. But I mean, these are important assumptions. You can't assume that because they might want to like really make it amazing and raise the value of the house.

How long does a project like this typically take?

So, this is good. Let's dive into this one a little more. If I said, hey, how long does a project like this typically take? Your assumption was like they want it done fast, right?

Well, I might be thinking it's longer and I'm like, hey, I don't want this to interrupt the holidays. So am I going to get it done before the holiday or after the holiday? So again, I guess that's kind of related to time of year, right?

My assumption would be like, hey, I can probably set them up for maintenance. I mean, that's kind of jumping to conclusions, right? Like, hey, I should probably tell them my maintenance package. When they just want to know, they want to teach their son how to do it. Like, I want to make sure my son can know how to do it. Can you teach him? Or grandson or something.

Right, right. What else? This doesn't seem that rapid fire to me. This is not like rapid fire.

Okay, give me another one.

If you would, give me a little bit of warning. And this is really spontaneous, so I'm not ready. That's the whole point.

Well, again, people are jumping to conclusions and now this is kind of coming full circle around. So like if someone's going to, you know, hey, I'm trying to get my house on the market. I'd like to get this project done. Can we talk about it? If you're jumping to conclusions that, hey, they're going to get it, they want to get it done real fast and they don't have a lot of money. You know, if you were just saying, if you would say like, That's a great question. Why do you ask? They might just say, hey, we're going to put our house on the market next spring. And I was hoping that we could dump some money into the landscape to really bring the value up with the home. And I just wanted to talk about that. I mean, that's polar opposites of what you assumed. And that stuff does happen, right? So that would be a really good example of what we were just talking about, the rapid fire that was kind of slow fire. But that's a good example of how things are assumed. You shouldn't make these assumptions. You just got to ask. When they ask you questions, you want to understand why they're asking these questions. It's not always what you think.

That's a great assumption because, dude, I've done multiple pawns for people in really poor zip codes. But you know, it's interesting that like you just make the assumption immediately. You get the address and you're like, oh, this is the wrong side of the tracks or whatever, right? But the couples literally lived there for 55 years. The house is paid for. They're both retired. They both have great retirement plans. But it's not like, they're like, hey, this is the only house we know. We raised our kids here. We love this place. And so they're going to stay no matter what. They're going to rough it out. And they have the money to do it. But so I've made that assumption in the past for sure. And now I have multiple pawns on the wrong side of the tracks at one house. And they paid me a premium to do it. So, and then on the flip side of that, you get to like, oh my gosh, this house. Dude, one of the people in the profit club hit me up about that the other day. They're like, hey, I made an assumption. There's this really crazy house. I threw out this high anchor, $90,000 and they almost choked. And they're like, whoa, we were thinking 30 grand. And he was like, trying to figure out what to do now, right? Because he made an assumption. He's like... And luckily, through some of his training, he was able to navigate through and figure out how he screwed up. And he's still learning, right? But it was really cool that he had that self-awareness, right? So he's going to have a better understanding of his assumption now. And he'll do his training and use different brackets to kind of help figure out what their number is instead of just blurting out a high anchor.

Yeah, you and I have talked about that. I want to share. Because we still look at, we're contractors, we're entrepreneurs, we use our gut on a lot of things. So I want to make sure that we're really clear on this. I think understanding your gut and coming back and going, I don't think I'm going to get that job. And then preserving that on a shelf and then you don't get the job and you go like, well, I was right on that. Let me take that data and log it, how it went, whatever happened, where they're from, and have that data. And so it makes your gut. instinct better and better. And so I want to make sure that people don't view that as an assumption, right? That's just being self-aware. Self-awareness is important. I did a live sales call with a client from six hours from my headquarters that showed up at the ranch. We went through a whole discovery call sitting out on a picnic table. It was really quite fun. I gave them a range. I had no idea what they wanted to spend. Pond's 20 years old. They bought it 20 years ago. And so I was like, okay, they have no idea what the new numbers are going to cost. They probably played dirt cheap back then. So I'm making, I'm not making assumptions, but I'm just being aware of things. Right. So anyways, what I ended up doing is like, I gave them a range between 35,000 and 50,000 is where we're probably going to land. And they had stone cold poker face. Like sometimes you can give a number and then they go, like they go, especially in person. They might go, okay, all right. You get that sense. Like, okay, they're okay with the number. They're not stressed out about it at all. And they were just stone cold in the middle. And I was like, are they scared? Are they excited? Do they want to hire me? I hope this is not too long. But they spent the night locally, and I took them to see a couple ponds the next day. And they were like all ooh and aah. And I still didn't know where they wanted to land. And then so I was like, hey, is it cool if we talk about the next step? And they said, yes. And I said, it's a site visit. They said, okay. And I said, it would probably be important to know kind of where you want to land before I come up there. You don't have to mention that, but it kind of gives me a sense of where you want to land. Because if it's a low number, and I went into this whole thing, I'm not going to go too deep on that. They're like, we're not afraid of the high number. And I'm like, okay, cool. Then I think we should set up a meeting and go out there. It was a lot more detailed than that. But when I was there, they were so stone cold, I didn't know where to go. And I was assuming like, well, I'm still on deck. I just don't know which direction it's going to go. And I just kind of wrote it out. And they went with a high number. So it's super cool. But if I would have really made an assumption, it could have gone south on me. Yeah. No, but see, I guess I was trying to give you self-awareness. Because when I put that data on the shelf, I was self-aware. I was like, okay, I don't know where this is going to land. I didn't come in at it like... oh, I'm never going to get this job. Or I wasn't like, oh, they want to spend a 50. No problem. I was like, I'm not sure where this is going to land. And I didn't make an assumption one way or the other. I just was able to communicate with them well enough to go like, hey, look, I want to provide the best possible service to you as possible when I drive six hours. Right? So that's, I didn't assume anything.

Yeah, I'll take you sale past yes, like we talked about. And then like... I don't even want this guy in my house. Every time he talks, he'll waste half an hour at a time. For sure, right?

Yeah. As far as the self-promotion goes, it's really not necessary. I mean, with a simple like, hey, would it be cool if you just tell me how you found out about our business? They were going to tell you. I saw a truck. I saw this. I got a great review from your friend, from my friend that you built the water feature for, did the remodel for. They said, you're amazing. I can't wait to work with you. You already know they have this great sense. You don't have to talk about yourself anymore. They don't want to hear it. They've already vetted you.

Well, the assumption one got weird on me, and I know I went a little long on it, but it's like there's a difference between making an assumption like a rapid fire, the slow fire, and self-awareness. You have to be self-aware to make your gut get better on when you're doing these things. But you just can't assume that they don't have the money. You can't assume that they have a bunch of money. You can't assume anything on timelines or anything like that. You just have to ask calibrated questions and ask them to let them give you the information.

Sound enough, sound enough. I think we did it, except we didn't do the rapid fire. We went slow fire. I talked too much about, oh, geez.

Hey, thank you so much for checking us out today. The podcast is important to us. I hope you are enjoying it as much as we're enjoying recording it. You know, you can make the world a better place by sharing this podcast with some contractor friends of yours. Just help them get on track. Help them make some right decisions and become better contractors so we can create better experiences for all of our prospects and clients. Thank you so much. We'll catch you on the next time.