EP35: Creating A Killer Culture

So for me, I personality and I, and it sounds redundant cause I say that a lot, but the culture is basically, I think how your employees feel about the company, how the public perceives the company. It's about, it's about perception and basically how, how coming to work makes you feel. how working for people makes them feel. So it's about, that's really, it's about feelings for me. And that's why I love this topic so much.

Well, yeah, that's 100%. I mean, so basically there's an internal culture and an external culture, right? But here's the thing. This is the real thing. If you don't have a good internal culture, your external culture is shit. I mean, that's just... It's the truth. It starts from within.

no, no. Not for me. I mean, maybe for you. I don't know. I mean, you and I clearly have different personalities, different perspectives, and that's why I think people resonate with us because we're coming at different. Coming at the same topics and perspectives and problems and solutions from different angles. And I think that's why we resonate with a lot of people. But, dude, I mean, if your employees don't have good culture internally and they're not happy and they don't want to come to work, then you can't fix it externally. It doesn't come external internally. It does rebound that way, but it has to come from inside as far as I'm concerned.

I agree. But if you don't treat your employees with professionalism, which is the part of the problem, most contractors screw this shit up and a lot of businesses screwed up. They might have that as their public persona. They don't do it internally. So externally, the employees are not doing it correctly. So that's why I think it comes from within. So yes and no.

I mean, I can see how it could be created that way. And I could actually see my business being tailored that way. Like, so I'm a solopreneur. I create this in, you know, internal culture is who I am. and how I treat my customers. It still started internally in my heart and in my brain and in my soul and however you want to do it. Like the way I treat my customers is my internal compass. And then when I hire, then hopefully I hire people that have that same compass, right? And if they don't, then I let them go. So this is all going to spin from, I mean, solo, right? That's cool. As you build out, here's the problem. If I hire an employee who's really makes me good money, but he doesn't have my same internal, like my internal compass, my moral compass, let's say. Right. And like, I'm making a lot of money on him, but gosh, he's kind of an asshole and he doesn't treat my customers really well, but shit, I'm not going to get rid of them because I'm making money. Like that's when it starts to get sideways. So it's going to come down to core values ultimately.

Yeah, I agree. I agree totally. But the problem is, here it is. You're a solopreneur, craftsman, a contractor, the whole story. You didn't go to school. You didn't go to the class on how to hire people. So you kind of have this gut reaction. I mean, most solopreneurs hire off. off their gut and then they move forward, but sometimes they screw up because they don't have any formal teachings on what to do and how to do it. So they're going to screw up. And then does money get in the way? That's where it kind of gets crazy. So yeah, I mean, I could see how the pressures of, this is going to come back to core values once again. The pressures of, hey, I have to have enough money to make this happen and make my mortgage and then pay the bill and then the trucks. I bought an extra truck for this employee. And so there becomes this inner tug of war where you hire someone that doesn't match your inner compass because you didn't get trained. You don't know how to do it right. And now they're making you the right amount of money to make all this work. And now you have this inner turmoil, right? So that's what's crazy.

Well, I mean, they say, you know the rule. It's hire slowly, fire quickly. That's really what needs to happen.

True. And I love Gary. He's a freaking legend.

Come on. Let's be honest. Let's be real. Let's be truthful, bro. Most of the references are bullshit anyways. Well, they are. It's my grandpa's brother-in-law, and he freaking is going to say rad shit about me, and you're going to want to hire me. Let's get to the point, bro. I mentioned two or three times already. It's about your core values. You got to be based around that. And you know what's amazing about this podcast, Brad? I just got to be, I want to share something with you.

Yeah, this podcast is awesome because you're here. If it weren't for you, this podcast would be shit. No, listen, it's so crazy because we do a topic on mental health and then like... People call me totally unrelated to, they didn't listen to the podcast. It's just like, it's like we're a magnet to what we're talking about because it's important stuff. And so, you know, we're recording podcast stuff on culture. And then literally people are hitting me up about culture, like after the fact, you know, it's just, it's crazy how this is all happening.

Good, because you're not very witty. But so listen, the bottom line is it's like, I know you and I already have drafted up what we're going to talk about, how it's going to roll down. And then people are reaching out to me saying either they're thinking about it or it's almost as if the podcasts that we're outlining to record are already solutions to problems that people that we're communicating with are having. And it's just really crazy how that's happening. I don't know what that is.

And that's a really super good analogy of it. Because it's almost like it's voodoo. We're drafting up the podcast to talk about, and then people are reaching out. Sometimes people reach out to us and go, hey, we have this problem. And we're like, hey, we should do a podcast about this. This is important. But it's the moments like this right now, Brad, when we're like, This is a podcast I want to do. And we have it all drafted up and then people start reaching out to me about it. It's almost like voodoo magic. It's crazy.

Let's get to core values. That's what's important to me. I want to talk about core values.

Mine are super lean. You might not even like them, Brad. Yours are probably all detailed out and all written like crazy. I only have four core values. And I know a lot of companies have seven, eight, nine,10,12 core values. But I think every time I talk to people, I can always like go, oh, well, that falls into this category for me. So here's my four simple lean, mean, clean core values. Character, most important. Team, second, most important. Winning, third. And having fun is number four. Those are my four lean, mean, clean core values.

Well, I know what you're going to say. It's like, well, character is totally vague, Eric. Like, what does that mean? Fun. Like, that's vague. It's like.

Well, for me, for me, character, like the core people next to me are, they know like, so I started with an apprentice. It's like, Hey, I'm going to build off of character. You know, you can't steal, you can't cheat. You can't, you know, like if I had an apprentice that's cheating on his wife, I'm like, yeah, this is not really the person I want to hang out with. This is not good character. I'm like, I want to know. unoptimistic. I want positivity. I want respectful discipline. All those good quality pieces of puzzle for character are important to me. I can lump them into that. A jackass character, class clown that always screws up, that loves to party, is not necessarily a good character for me.

Well, it comes from within. I mean, it started by myself. And so each team member I add, the character is there. So let me give you an example. You hire a couple guys, gals, whatever. You're building your team. And for you, you've established with everyone on the team, like this is our culture, this is our compass. The code is your compass, right? So it's character. Okay. And so someone's coming into work late every day and then you apply pressure. Like this is not the character that I'm looking for. I want discipline. I want reliability. These are important to us as a team. And you talk about it with everyone. This is the character that I expect, character I demand. And, you know, if they continue to be late all the time and you don't, you know, you don't put down the hammer, then you don't really believe in what you're talking about. But when you're like, dude, this is not happening, you know, like take the day off. We left without you. Can I come to the job site? No, we already left. Like you don't have the right character. And if you like, every decision I make is based on these four things, character, team, win, fun. So when your other team members see you apply pressure to those important factors in the character that you expect, then it builds. And that's how I see it. I mean, Let's be honest. I mean, most employees aren't going to listen to 22 different, you know, specific is terrific things under those things. You know, don't steal from me. Don't cheat. Don't, don't, you know, like those are important.

You can definitely, I agree with you 100%. So like at 17 employees, this is working for me, right? At 34, maybe it becomes diluted and the character becomes a little bit loose, right? And if I become detached from those 34 employees or 52 employees, then suddenly, you know, that, that might need to be more specific for me at this level. I still have control over that. Right. And I still, I, you know, all 17 employees, I know all their names. I know all their wives. I know all their girlfriends. I know all their kids. I know what to buy them for Christmas, all that stuff. So it's like, there's still some cultural attachment there. So, I mean, the wider it gets. the crazier it could become and for you to lose control of the culture and the company. So, I mean, I think that's important.

I mean, I think that's awesome. I love that about you, you know, like. You are who you are. But so, you know, I mean, I have the core values, right? Simple, four, you know, four pieces, clean, lean, mean. And then so I do have an employee handbook and an employee handbook is like, you'll be respectful. You'll be, you won't steal from us. You won't come to work drunk. You won't flip people off in a vehicle. Like those become part of the handbook. So, I mean, the handbook is like kind of the rules, like that describes the character. So if you're reading this and you're like, hey, you can't come to work drunk, you're like, fuck, I like drinking at work, man. And if it's like, hey, you can't flip people off when you're driving in a company truck, you're like, dude, I love my horn. I honk at people all the time. The person should be like, hey, this might not be a good fit for me. And if they lie about it, then I can come back to the handbook and go, hey, I don't know that you have the character that I'm looking for. This is the third time this week you come to work smelling like booze. And I got... two calls from you about honking at people. Like, this is not good for me.

That's amazing. I love that. I'm so glad you mentioned that. You know what's interesting is because I know you're talking about it. It's so funny you mentioned that. I don't think it's that personnel. I mean, I don't even know what to say about that. Because that is an internal compass, but maybe they have some inner turmoil that they need to deal with because that doesn't mean they're a terrible person. It might have the inner turmoil they need to make some corrections on.

I mean, I have definitely things on top of mind, but I'd love to hear what you got written down. Let it rip.

Listen, yeah. I mean, I want you to go through the 10, but like maybe preface, I'd like to preface something if that's cool. I mean, part of culture is most people want... They want to feel included. They want, I mean, people, I mean, employees, right? For, for companies, right? They want to feel included. They want to feel wanted. They want to

So before you start a prep, that's it. Yeah. Go for it.

So here, part of that goal too, is like, here's where I want to be in five years. Here's my goal for you as an employee. Hey, I want you to run your own cruise. And one day you'll be managing two crew. Like, like they have to have a clear idea of like where they can go. A lot of, a lot of employees, a lot of employers don't even offer clear goals for their. for them, right? So that's internal, external. See, does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.

Funny. Come on. I agree. I mean,100%.

I mean, you know me, respect is my word, bro. Like. my whole, like respect is the word is my, my blessing and my curse. So everything's about respect. So I mean, that comes naturally to me to respect my employees and like respect. I don't just give it like, well, I should say this. I give respect until they, they screw it up. And then, then I'm like, okay, now you really have to earn it. So, I mean, I'm a little giving in that regard where some people are like, Hey, you have to earn my respect to get it from me. But. For me, it's a little twist there, but again, that word is my blessing and my curse.

Yeah. I mean, so here's where it's like, you know, you're creating culture. At some point, you have to be a hard ass to protect your culture, right? So it's like, oh, cut me some slack. I've made you a lot of money. Be respectful. Like, just be cool. Like, I just screwed up once. I understand screwing up, but there are some things that are, there's a certain amount of zero tolerance. Like, so like for being late, it's like they show up late and be like, Hey, take the, take the day off. Like, Oh fuck. You know, they know better. They won't even go like, Oh, I'm just sorry. I'm like, I don't care. Take the day off. Like the whole team waited for you. It's not cool. You know, there could be some scenarios where things happen. You had a flat tire or whatever. Right. Like I get it, you know, but, but at least it's a phone call. Like. Hey, bro, I'm on the side of the road. I got a flat tire. I'm going to be 20 minutes late. Can I meet you on the job site? That's being respectful. And that shows character, right? So it's like, yeah, cool. Meet us on the job site. It's a phone call, right? But that zero-row tolerance, if you tolerate some of that shit, then the other employees see that you're weak on those areas. And so you have to be strong on your values. And that's why you can base your decisions on your core values. So if you're really strong on that, then... Your employees will go like, okay, cool. He's serious about this. Those things are really important to him. And they're going to abide by them.

I love that video. I was crying on the ground. I loved it.

I mean, that's character right there. You know, I mean that, that, that proves that the owner is not biting by his character. You know, so that's easy for me to see how I can always point to certain things.

I think that's super important. Like, so here's the thing, like on smaller companies, listen. Like you're a solopreneur, you got an apprentice. Like you don't have to have, you have one, two people on your team. You don't need an employee of the month program, right? But just a recognition of like, hey man, we really did good this week. You guys really kicked ass. I'm so thankful. Like I'm buying lunch tomorrow. So don't pack a lunch tomorrow. I'm taking this out. I'm really proud of you guys. That's recognition, right? I mean, I like the employee of the month. mentality because that's recognition. And I like that. I'm that I personality. I want to hear that shit. But, you know, for a solopreneur and a company, even for me,17 employees, I like, I just go around and tell people they do a good job. I recognize that they did good. And this, this is what's crazy in the newer, you know, like the newer generation, generational of people, millennials, Gen X, Gen Z, Gen whatever, all those different generations, like the younger people, they want to hear it more often. Like me, if I heard, hey, you did a good job, bro. Once a day, I'd be like, nice. Thank you. I worked my ass off all day and I heard it once. Like the newer generation, they need to hear like five, six, seven times a day. I'm like, I have to tell you every half an hour how cool you are. Like, I don't want to tell you that much.

Good job, Brad. Good job.

You got like 70 more cuts to make today. I'm not going to compliment everyone. No, bro. Listen, I had this one employee. He's just of the wrong age. I don't know. Or the wrong mentality, wrong upbringing. I don't know. But like I gave him a special name, like this really cool name. I'm not even going to mention the names and stuff because if I say it, it's just too, everyone's going to know exactly what I'm talking about. he had a special nickname and every time he would come to work, I would call him this nickname and he would start glowing and he'd be all proud and shit. And then like an hour later, if I wasn't like, oh my gosh, look how you drove that machine. Like he would be like sad and like sulking. And like, I'm like, I just don't have time for this man. Like, and it's not generational, but I mean, the generations are having some of that problem, but like. I think it's a little bit of upbringing, a little bit of emotion, whatever. But it's like, bro, grow a set.

That just must be painful for you to do.

Oh, it is.

Because not when you're talking to me, bro. You're like, this is how it is. This is how it's going to be. This is how we roll. I'm like, no, Brad. No, Brad.

This is a good topic because I do think it's important. So what I've tried to do recently, I don't want to say recently because I've tried to do it for a while, but you're going to call me control freak, perfectionism, all this bullshit. I want to hear from you. But a lot of times if guys come to me with a problem, I'll be like, okay, what are the solutions? What are the solutions to get this thing done? And like, I might already know it in my head, but I'm empowering them to tell me what it is. And hopefully I can guide them into... the decision that I want them to make, you know, I might, if they give me the wrong decision, I might be like, well, what do you think about this? And they'll be like, oh yeah, yeah, that could work. I'm like, okay, let's do that. You know, like, so it might be that kind of response, but now they're coming to me with amazing ideas. I'm like, where'd you come up with that idea? That's, that's amazing. Let's roll with it. And what's even funner. I had this little humor thing. We talked about humor earlier. They'll come, they'll come to me with a problem. and a solution. And I'll be like, man, that is an excellent idea. I'm glad I thought of it. And I'll wink at him and I'll like smile, like, you know, like I'm going to try and take credit, but I know it's you, you're the bad-ass. And like, it's this funny little moment with us. They know that, and that's like a personal thing between me and the person coming to me with a solution. But then when I externally push it out, I'll be like, Hey, Vic came up with this killer idea. This is how we're going to solve this problem. And then I validate them through that. But between them, just us, I'm like, oh, I'm glad I thought of that. So that's kind of a fun little twist. And that's a fun little cultural move.

Whose idea was this particular podcast we're doing right now?

Oh, I'm glad I thought of it. Yeah.

Can you smile?

Stop it. Can you once... A little wink of a smile, please.

That's going to go back to a lot of the... things that we teach and preach, Brad, it's like job costing. And, you know, it's like, I want my production supervisor involved in that. I want my crew chiefs involved in that. I want all my apprentices and second in commands to like realize that kind of stuff, because that might determine what their bonus is going to look like. Like, Hey, if we get this job done in the allocated hours, we've talked about, then like, well, there's a little bit of money for everyone. So they want to. be involved with that kind of stuff. And so transparency is really clear. And so, you know, when you're pulling in checks for $20,000 and like $7,000 on Monday when you break ground and then 7,000 on Friday, and then like you sell a job and you get a big deposit, like my team sees those kinds of things. And so they also see when it's like, Hey, we'll buy whatever tools are necessary to get this job. $1,000 for this tile saw, let's get it. $1,000 for a new jackhammer, that's fine. Oh, we need new helmets for everyone on the team. They're $200 a piece. There's 10 guys on the team. That's a lot of money. It adds up. But then when someone comes to me and they're like, hey, we need to do this and we need to get tires on the truck. And when you go, hey, this is not a good move for us right now. Things are a little tight this week. Let's see how far we can stretch it. And you're genuine and authentic about it. Sometimes I see my guys go, oh, we got to be careful for $2,000 worth of tires. Okay. It's that transparency and authenticity in it. If you're transparent across the board, they sense it, they feel it, they understand it, and they respect it.

Let's do it.

Hammer and grind. Yeah.

I'll start talking about it because then I'll be like, let's do it. And you'll be like, no, bro. I can't do it right now. All right.

I mean, there's so much depth in all this stuff. I do want to talk about the social outings because I think that's an important part of culture and creating fun experiences for your team. It's not just about the robot thing. It's like, hey, they care about me. They've been flexible. Hey, I have a funeral coming up. Or sometimes it's like, here's the flexible thing, right? All these can go so deep and I don't want to go too deep on all of them. If you know someone lost someone in their family, like I already know there's some bereavement time I got to figure out. Right. And I'm already planning my flexibility before they even realize that they need it. Right. So it's like, hey, they had a loss. I might send them a text. Hey, I'm really sorry for what you're experiencing. If there's anything you need, let me know. And then let me know how much time you need to off. Take as much as you need. That proves flexibility. Right. And they're not even thinking about the funeral yet. They're just experiencing the loss, right? And then they're like, hey, I'm going to come back to work on next Monday or whatever, right? And then when they come back, you just pull them to the side and you're like, hey, look, there's probably a funeral coming up. If you can, you know, just let me know when it's going to happen. You know, completely flexible, whatever you need. I want you to come through this correctly, you know? So, like, you're planning that flexibility for them. That's important. That can go all the way down to school and kids and daycare and all that stuff.

I don't want to go there yet. Hold on. Give me one minute. I know we're going to go longer. I'm sorry. I want to talk about the social outings real quick because the social outings, if you've created the culture of respect and character and discipline and all that stuff and fun and winning and all that stuff, when you plan those outings, sometimes you get to see a different side of your employees and your employees get to see different sides of themselves. And they get to share different sides of themselves. And I think the social outings are kind of important, whether it's a dinner or a Christmas party or, you know, like taking them zip lining and they get to laugh and like they get this rush with each other. Like I truly believe in those who played, you know, hard together, you know, work hard together. I think that's important. And so I don't want to just glaze over the fact that social outing because I do think that's important to me to the core.

f*** are you talking about? Are you kidding me?

So that's cool. I think social element is really important. So let's hear the don'ts. Don't do what?

know what? I've argued with HR on this. My personal HR team. Like I want my team to take a one-week vacation. And after they've been with me five years, I pay them a two week vacation. If they've been here longer, I give them a three weeks vacation. Like that's part of the Ascension program with us. Right. And I, I literally went to my HR department and I was like, do not offer them their like PTO vacation time because they got sick or because they went to their friend's wedding or because they, whatever. Like I, I think my employees will, will shit that, that special time off. I literally, I don't want them to, they're getting enough long weekends. We get Christmas and Thanksgiving and Memorial Day and Fourth of July. Like we get some long weekends, right? But I'm like, I literally want my guys to take a week off with their family. That gives them, you know, five, seven, like nine days of like escapism with their family. I want that to happen. And my HR is like, you can't force that upon them.

I know, but it pisses me off. I want them to have that.

And I just don't know how I feel about that. I mean, so here's the thing. I mean, here's my heart, man. I mean, you're not going to like this, but it's like, hey, they just spent all their money on their Christmas gifts. And, you know, let's face it. A lot of employees make poor decisions with their money and like they blow their wad on Christmas and they want to work between Christmas and New Year because they need some freaking money. And so like I had this, my heart is playing tug of war with that kind of shit, right? I'm like, dude, you're going to take vacation in the fall and like, go somewhere. I'm paying you to not be here. Like go do something fun. Don't shit it away throughout the year because you know, stupid shit. Like I really want them to have that. And, um, I let them know that, but, but I let them know that, that I think. I don't want them to work through lunches. I don't want them to work through breaks. I want them to have the special time. That's important to me. And if they know that, that's part of my character. So they feel that.

Yeah. I mean, you said you're guilty of it. I'd like to say I'm not, right? But I do think it's a really killer way to create culture. We've done trips where we're working out of town. We're driving four hours. It's like just we're driving for four hours. You're doing nothing. You're on Instagram, whatever, Facebook. But sometimes I'll like plan a special spot in the middle where we'll stop for 45 minutes or whatever and catch a glimpse of the beach or see something special or, you know, hit it. a destination spot that they've never been to before, take them to a special restaurant or something like that. Hey, we're having lunch here today. So I, you know, I think that's one of the things that's been special for me creating killer culture, but so yeah, don't, don't make them work through lunch.

That's going to go to zero tolerance.

It's hard to repair. Super hard.

Sure.

Yeah, that's clear. I mean, that, that just means. You can't force someone to have good character. You know, if they don't have it, they don't have it. Sometimes they can't learn it. So.

You got to give them a bunch of them in their face. Listen, respect is my blessing and my curse. Like that's one thing I'm not going to bend on.

Well, I mean, if, if, if on Fridays you have, you know, you, crack open a couple beers with the guys and, and, and someone doesn't like to drink or very rarely drinks. You're like, Hey, come and have a beer with us. Like, no, I don't drink though. Come on. Don't be a little bitch. Like come and hang out with us. Like that, that would be a decent example. Like I might figure out like, Hey, I got you a root beer. Just come and hang out. We'd like, we'd like tell some jokes and stuff like that. You know, like you might, you might coerce them in there. And then start doing shots of whiskey and drinking beer with them once you can. No, but you know what I mean. You know what I mean? It's like being respectful. That's the character of like, hey, do you want to drink a seltzer water? We just kind of laugh and tell a couple of jokes and have a good time. And so you're not going to force them to do it. Yeah, they don't want to.

That's all you got. It's like the record long podcast. You're not allowed to do research anymore for podcasts, bro. Okay. This is supposed to be my podcast. Okay. You got any final thoughts?

Yeah, that's good stuff. I guess my final thought would be like, you have a culture in your company, whether you want to believe it or not. If you're like, well, I've never really worked on my culture. Like, this is the first time I heard of it. Like, you have a culture in your company already. It's like... You have to be intentional with what you want it to be like, how people want to feel about your company working for you internally and how your customers feel about your culture externally. And so I guess one of the final thoughts besides you already have a culture, just like you have a brand, right? If you're having a hard time figuring out how you want to do it and how you want to build it and where you want to go around, figure out what your core values are, who you are as a human being and what's important to you. And then base. the foundation of building your culture around those core values that are important to you, whether it's character and winning and profits and whatever it is, you have to build it around those core values. So I think that's how I'm going to leave it. Thank you so much for paying attention to our podcast. It means the world to us that you spend the time with us on these things. We're hoping that we're providing you value. And when you get the value from us, We are going to demand that you take the time to get out there and share the podcast with other contractors and people that your peers with. Because ultimately, when contractors are better at what they do, they make the world a better place and create better experiences for not only for people that we're working for, but for their families and their friends. So again, spread the word, rate and review, hit the subscribe button. And thank you so much for your time. We'll catch you on the next time.