A contractor's journey to self-mastery requires discipline, integrity, and respect. Welcome to Hammer and Grind. Welcome to Hammer and Grind, the podcast built for contractors. Real contractors, true stories, real solutions. My name is Brad Hebner, and I will guide you on your journey to mastery of your construction business. You can find Hammer and Grind on all the social media platforms. Just search for Hammer and Grind Podcast. Now, if you're looking for more help, you can check out our free Facebook group called The Contractor Profit Group. I do free trainings in there and it's a great community to be a part of. Now, if you're serious about making more money, saving more time, and creating a business that supports your lifestyle, check out my paid coaching group called The Profit Club. I've put together a proven system for creating a winning business. Now listen, I'm so confident that you will succeed in my program. I'm now offering a 10x ROI guarantee. That means if you don't make at least a 10x return on your investment within a 12-month period, I will refund you the full amount. You can find out more information about The Profit Club at hammerandgrind. com forward slash The Profit Club. On this podcast, we're going to be talking about why doing free estimates is for losers. If you do free estimates in 2022, you are a loser. I'm sorry that that hits hard. I know some of you are going to be saying that's just the cost of doing business. I've been doing free estimates this whole time. It works out really good for me. I have a good system in place. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Excuse after excuse after excuse to try and justify why doing free estimates is a good thing. And I'm here to tell you straight to your face, to your ears, from my mouth to your ears, to your face, if you do free estimates, that is not a cost of doing business. That is a cost of being stupid legitimately because there is absolutely no reason in 2022 that you should be doing free estimates with technology that's available today. There's no reason for you to drive out to someone's house and waste 45 minutes to two hours of your time to do a free estimate and not get the job. Now, I know some of you are already saying this too. You're waiting. You're waiting for me to wait and just tell me this because you want to prove to me that I'm wrong so bad. Yeah, but I have a 95% close rate when I get out in front of them. People love me. All I have to do is get in front of them. And as soon as I get in front of them, they love me. They fall in love. And I use my magic and then I close them. And that may be true. Maybe you do do that. But you're still wasting time on the other 5%. And I almost guarantee you that that number that you're spitting out is not an actual factual number. It's a made up number in your head. So if somebody wants to prove me wrong, send me your documents. Send me your actual KPI tracker that shows me how many leads you get, how many jobs you go look at, and your closing rate. Because I want to see that because I don't believe any of you. When you tell me you have a 90% closing rate, I don't believe you because I don't think you're tracking it to begin with. But even if you are tracking it, I don't believe you. I don't think it's accurate. The reason I know it's not accurate is because I said all of those things that I just told you, I said the exact same thing for years in my own business. Years. Even after I had all of the proof, even if I had all of the evidence that showed that I didn't need to do a free estimate, for another year after I had the knowledge, I still refused to accept it. And another year went by. that I wasted all of my time. Now, I got a little bit better at pre-qualifying people, so I wasn't wasting as much time, but I was still wasting time. Because if I showed you the exact formula to pre-qualify people over the phone, to give them a ballpark price, to see if it's in their budget, to find out if their timeframe aligns with mine, I can close them to a 95% certainty on the phone before I ever go to their house. Now tell me which scenario is better. You know with a 95% certainty on the phone that you're going to close them before you leave, or you have about a 40% to 50% chance of closing them, and then you go to their house, and then whatever happens there may increase the chances of closing it. Every single person, every contractor, Every client of mine that I've shown this process to will never do a free estimate ever again for the rest of their life. Because once you understand how much of a time saver, how much of an actual value adding activity this is to the process, no one in their right mind would ever go back to doing free estimates. So the only question here is not does it work. Not, is it possible? Not, can I do it in my town or in my trade? None of those things are the right question. The only question that I have for you is, are you willing to be open-minded enough to at least try it or to at least hear what I have to say about pre-qualifying your clients and never doing a free estimate again? Now, I know some of you listening are in my groups and I have conversations with you. Some of you have even shared stories about how you've used the eight questions to pre-qualify people. And by the way, you guys, if you haven't listened to that podcast, it's an absolute must. You need to go back and listen to the eight powerful questions that we use to pre-qualify customers over the phone. You need to listen to the other podcast right after that, which was how to pre-qualify people. Those two podcasts alone are gold. And this one here is going to be the nail in the coffin as to why you should never do another free estimate. Okay. So I want to get this out there because some people take some of the information and they improve their process, which is great. Some people use the eight questions to pre-qualify them, but then they still go do a free estimate and they may or may not close them. Okay. I'm all about getting one step closer, but I want you to get all the way. I want you to go to the finish line, which is never going to do a free estimate again. When you go to a customer's house, you should be doing one of two things. You should be collecting a deposit to move forward with the project, or you should be collecting a consultation charge for your time there going over their project with them. Now, There's two different things about a consultation slash charging for estimates. Okay. When I say charging for estimates, I don't mean you just show up to their house, you get out your tape measure, you go measure it and you give them a price for doing the project. Okay. That is a basic estimate. If you're doing that, if you're charging for that, you're probably going to have a higher rejection rate. Okay. However. If you're doing a full-on consultation where you're actually consulting with them and you're sharing with them ideas and you're talking about different colors and patterns and materials and all of these different things that you can do to improve it or talking about layout and what's going to be the best option for them and their project. If you're doing all of those things, that is a consultation. That is not an estimate. And if you're doing a consultation, you are providing value to your clients and therefore you should be paid for that. It's no different than if someone called you and said, hey, Mr. Contractor, Mrs. Contractor, I have a court case going on right now with another contractor. I'm looking for an expert to come out and look at my project and tell me what was right and what was wrong. and I will pay you as an expert witness. And you're like, sure, I'd love to do that. I charge $500 to do that. They say, great. That's the same thing. It's literally the same thing. You're getting paid for your expertise to come out and give an opinion about something. Why aren't you doing that for your potential prospects? Again, we're not talking about a free estimate. We're not talking about driving by and looking at their house from the truck. and then giving them a price and charging them $100 for that. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about investing in their project and their time and sharing your knowledge and wisdom with them. And here's another thing that's totally separate from the estimate or consultations, and that is designs. If you're doing free designs, shoot yourself right now in the foot. Pull out a gun, shoot yourself in the foot. Okay, don't do that. I don't want to get any kind of lawsuits or anything against me. Shoot yourself in the foot with a make-believe gun, your finger. Pretend you have a finger gun and you're shooting yourself in the foot because metaphorically, that's what you're doing. Why would you ever do a free design? That's even worse than doing a free estimate, okay? You are getting paid to do design work and that's above the consultation. Now, some people will actually combine the two. They'll do a design retainer. or they'll do a design as part of their process. And that's okay as well. There's a few different ways you can do that. But if you're going out and meeting with someone and they say, hey, I want to get a design on what this looks like. And you're like, okay, sure. I'll provide you with a free design. And you go spend two hours designing up their bathroom remodel on some 3D rendering project software. And you give it to them for free. That's the worst of the worst. Literally the worst of the worst. Now, here's something that I did. This is how smart I was, okay? I said, I'm going to give them a free design even if they don't ask for it. You know why? Because when I do that, they're going to be so wild and they're going to hire me because I went above and beyond and provided them with so much value through the free design and they would have no choice but to hire me. So several times I would spend hours doing a free design for them that they didn't even ask for just to send it to them so that I could have a higher chance of closing them. It's asinine. So when I tell you that you're a loser for doing free estimates, I'm talking about myself. I did it. I was a loser for big years, for a number of years. And when I say loser, I mean financial loser, guys. You are financially losing. You are losing your time. You're losing your freedom. Okay? So you need to understand that the estimate gain, the estimate gain is part of the process for sure. You have to do an estimate of some kind. That's a no-brainer. But you should not be doing it for free. If someone wants to have a project done, and you pre-qualify them over the phone correctly, and they are serious about having this project done, they will be more than happy to pay you for you to come out and visit with them and give them your expertise, potentially giving a design in that and helping them with their project. Okay? Part of the reason that you guys struggle with this is because and I've talked about this on the podcast before, is you try to take every single lead that comes in and convert them into a customer. And you shouldn't be doing that to begin with. You should only be converting leads that are the ideal clients for you. Because then you don't have to go out and even do more free estimates for people that aren't even your customers to begin with. You know, there's multiple things you need to pre-qualify against, which are... Time frames, right? Time frames are really, you pretty much can't get around that. If they want it done in two weeks and you're six months booked out, why even go out to their house? I've done that. Show up, drive 30 minutes away, show up, have a 45-minute conversation and then say, oh, what's your time frame on this? Oh, well, we need it done in two weeks and waste all that time. That's back when I was real naive and didn't even think about asking for time frames on the call. Or... The other thing that we all know that's the big killer is budget, right? Because if you go out there and spend a lot of time, what happens? You do the estimate. You have a great conversation. They really love me. I connected with them. You know, we do all these things and then we go and do a free estimate and I feel good about this. You know, they said they get back with me tomorrow. Really feeling excited about this. I need this job. And you never hear back from them. And you send them a message and they ghost you. Guys, stop that madness. Seriously, just stop it. Stop the madness of free estimates. The people that do free estimates, especially the ones that advertise free estimates, are on a direct path to going out of business. Now, I'm sure there's going to be this one outlier person who does free estimates and has a very successful business. And I'm happy for you. That's great. That is not the case for most contractors. An overwhelming number of contractors, that is not the case. So don't come at me, bro, with your, I do free estimates and I have a successful business. That may be true, but you're still wasting time doing free estimates. At the very least, if you went out and did an estimate and you didn't get the job and you got paid $250, $500, $1,000, whatever it is, you could at least say you were paid for your time and you didn't lose out, right? You're not a loser in that scenario. I have clients that charge $2,500 for consultations. That's their consultation is $2,500. Clients that charge $250, $500, $750, $1,000 all over the place. And I'm telling you that every one of these people that are charging these consultations and these prices at some point in their business, were doing free estimates. But at some point in their business, they had an epiphany or they got so sick and tired of wasting their time that they made the decision to say, no more. I'm not doing this anymore. There has to be a better way. And if you're listening to this podcast and you're at that point right now thinking, there has to be a better way, I'm going to give you an olive branch and tell you there is a better way. there's a lot better ways to do it. All you have to do is reach out. And I'll be more than happy to share with you how you can go about doing this. But what I want to talk about on this today is when you do free estimates, you actually reduce the value offering to the client. And I know this sounds so counterintuitive, but let me explain. If you have, especially, and this applies especially if you have a lot of leads, like right now where your phones are blowing up and you're like gangbusters and you can't even keep up. Because what happens is when you're doing free estimates, you tend to like squeeze them in. You tend to, I'll stop by there on the way home and look at it, right? You don't want to lose the lead. You don't want to give up on that project. So you're going to try and squeeze it in, even though you don't really have any extra time available. And so what you end up doing is mailing a check-in. You end up going in and doing a half-ass estimate. And sometimes you do an estimate and you're like, I don't even want to do this job. I don't even want to talk to these people. They're rude. They're mean. I'll just double the price. I'll just throw a really high price on there. And then that way they won't do it. And then they call you back and say, yeah, let's go for it. And now you're stuck with a client that you don't even want. Okay. So what you're doing is you're putting your clients, potential clients, you're not giving them 100% of your time or energy. So whenever you're getting paid $250, $500, $1,000, $2,500 to go meet with a client, do you think that you're going to be much more dedicated to that client? Do you think you're going to be at the top of your game? And do you think that you're going to put all of your effort into providing them with as much value as possible? The answer is yes. And so your client actually wins whenever you charge them to come out there. And I know this is like blowing people's minds. Nobody would ever pay for an estimate. No one's going to ever pay for a consultation. Yeah, they will. They do it all the time. I have evidence of hundreds and thousands of contractors. who have done this and continue to do this. So if you're listening to this and you're trying to justify why you have to do free estimates, you have a losing mindset. So you lose financially, your customer loses, all because you have a losing mindset. You have a fixed or limited belief mindset around what's possible. So for most contractors, this shift. between doing free estimates and charging for estimates or consultations requires a mindset shift. It's not a stroke of the pen. It's not a word track that you use per se. It requires a mindset shift from you. You have to actually want to stop doing free estimates before it's possible. Because if it's not, if you don't do that, if you don't make that mindset shift, what's going to happen is You'll say, okay, Brad, we'll see how smart you are. I'll try. The next call I get on, I'm going to tell him I charge for an estimate. And you get on there and maybe you ask the eight questions. Maybe you don't. I don't know. And maybe you pre-qualify and maybe you don't. But then when it comes time to give him the estimate, you're going to say, yeah, Mr. Customer, I can come out there. I do charge for estimates, though. It's $100. And they're going to say, oh, well, yeah, I'm not going to pay for an estimate. Thanks for your time. And you're going to say, see, I knew it. I knew that Brad Boo didn't know what the hell he was talking about. That's exactly what's going to happen. Because once you change your mind, you now have to get the training to be able to do it. Just because you now have changed your mindset doesn't mean that automatically it's going to work. So you have to change your mindset first. Then you have to get the training to be able to do it correctly. And the third element is you have to actually practice this. You have to practice. You have to role play with other people on how to do sales over the phone and how to tell people that you charge for estimates. Now, if you're going to charge, if you're going to try and do this, let me give you a couple tips so you at least have some moderate success. If you're going to charge for doing an estimate, doing a consultation, Start at a low number really just to build your own confidence. So if you're doing an estimate, let's say it's a $5,000 project, not a really expensive one. And they want you to come out there, say, you know, Mr. Customer, I'd love to come out there. I do have a estimate charge. It's $50. Start low because even at 50 bucks, like, yeah, I mean, if someone's not even that serious or they're getting multiple estimates, but they like you. they'll be willing to pay you 50 bucks for sure. And so you can start low, get a little bit of wins that way, build up some confidence, and you can slowly raise that. I was on a Facebook group the other day, and they were complaining about, it was a female, and she shared the screenshot of a text conversation she was having with the customer. This is what the customer said. If I sent you pictures of the project, and I believe it was a bathroom remodel, don't quote me on that. if I sent you pictures of this project, would you be able to give me an estimate without coming out? And the contractor, she said, no, we have to come out and physically look at it so that we can understand everything to be able to give you an estimate. And we do charge for that at $65. And the client was basically saying, can we get some free estimates before we have to move to the paid option? So I'm assuming that she had talked to other contractors who were potentially, you know, charging for estimates. And so they said $65. And the contractor commented and said that they had an appointment for Monday to go out there. Now, good for her. You know, she's $65. But then she goes on to tell me that, because I commented and said, well, that's not the best way to do that. And she said, That's when she said that they were going out there Monday. And she also mentioned that they were in a suburb of a larger city and it's 45 minutes one way to go do any job. And I thought, wow, you're telling me that you're going to go 45 minutes one way, spend time with the customer and 45 minutes back and you only charge $65. That doesn't cover your time, let alone your gas and time. Okay. So if you're doing a low number to get started, to get comfortable, I'm okay with that. But the point of the consultation charge is to make it hurt. What do I mean by that? It's to make it hurt for the customer. Because the higher the number and the more willing they are to pay that, the more qualified they are as a customer. And just like the example I gave you of one of my clients who charges $2,500, he has a very high-end product and he has a very long buying cycle. very well designed, high value provided buying cycle. And so when he gets to that point of, I'm going to come out to your house, they are very serious buyers. It doesn't mean that he gets 100% close rate, but if someone's willing to pay you $2,500 to come out to their house, that's a pretty serious buyer. And I think anybody listening to this would agree, if someone pays that much, they're a serious buyer. You can waste $50, $65, $100 and not be a serious buyer. I'm not saying everybody would do that, but there are people that are going to be in that range who are willing to pay $50 even though they probably won't hire you anyways. So the point of charging is not just to cover your gas. It's a multifaceted reason. One, it's to cover your time so that you're not just wasting it. Two, it's to cover your gas and your wear and tear on your vehicle. And three, it's to see how serious they are about doing business with you. So when you incorporate this into your sales process and you get a commitment from them over the phone, then you'll know with a 95% certainty that if someone's willing to pay $500 or $1,000 or $2,500 for a consultation, Unless you get out there and everything is just way off, it's totally different. They told you one thing and you get out there and it's something totally different. The pricing that you gave them is not even close. That's about the only thing that's going to knock them out of the running. That's going to make them change their mind. So the whole premise is to cover your time and expenses, but also to see how serious they are. In regards to free estimates. doing consultations, right? Charging for your time. If you don't deliver it correctly over the phone, you will come across as a greedy dickhead. So 90% of this is in the delivery of how you tell your clients on the phone that you charge for estimates or charge for a consultation. If you do it via text, like this young lady did in this Facebook group. If you're doing that information, giving that information over text, that's not the best way of doing that. Because here's a little secret about text, guys. The people will read your message in the attitude, the mood that they're in. So if they're in a really crappy mood, they're going to read your text in a crappy mood. If they're in a really good mood, they're going to read it in a really good mood. But you're basically leaving it up to whatever mood they're in. And if you send them a text and they have a bad day at work and they finally get home and they check their text messages and they see, hey, Gary, I can come out and give you an estimate, but it's going to be $100. And I'm going to see that. I'm in a bad mood. I'm like, what the? This contractor is going to charge me to come out to my house. Screw him. I'm going to text back. No, thanks. I'll get somebody else. That's what you're doing when you text stuff. You're leaving it up to the person's reading it, their mood they're in. So never deliver anything financial over text unless it's like, you know, here's the information we talked about. Hey, John, remember I told you on the phone it was going to be 500 bucks. I'm just sending it over to you in text so you have that information. That's totally different. If you're delivering a cost to the customer over, you know, that for the first time, don't do it over text. Are there certain circumstances? Sure. If it's a smaller dollar amount, if it's like a two, $300 job. that's probably okay. That's not the end of the world. I've done that many, many times over email and text. If it's an hourly job, you can do that. But if you're delivering a value that's over several thousand dollars, it needs to be done over the phone because you need to be able to deliver it using tonality and certain cadence and having the spirit of the conversation and all of these things that tie into this. You need to be able to do that over the phone. And you need to be able to handle any objections that come up in regards to you charging for the estimate or consultation. One last tip I'll give you on that is most of the time, and I teach this, if you're going to charge for a consultation, we roll that cost into the final invoice. So in other words, if I charge $250 to come out and give you an estimate and you hire us, I put that $250 as a credit. towards the final invoice. That way they don't feel like they're being charged twice. Now, if I'm doing a design, an actual design, that's totally different. If I deliver a design, and this is what I tell anybody who does it, when you deliver a design, that is a service in and of itself. And that is a fee that is not credited. So if I give you a design, I charge you $1,000 for that design, that's $1,000. It does not get credited to the invoice. I mean, your business, you can choose to do that if you want. I know some businesses have to do designs for all their project. Like if you're a landscape contractor and you do higher end stuff, which is the case of my client I was telling you that charges $2,500. They pretty much do a design on every job they do. And so part of the consultation includes a design. And so they may charge $2,500 as part of it. Right. And then if you want to credit that, that's fine. It's that part's totally up to you. But the purpose of it is to make sure that when you go out to someone's house, they're serious. They're ready to hire you or they're ready to at least consider what you have to offer. OK, the trick on charging for consultations is you have to be able to give a price over the phone. So you have to know your numbers. You have to know roughly what these jobs are going to cost. And I have to be able to say, you know, Mr. Customer, this project is going to be somewhere between. $50,000 and $35,000. Is that in the ballpark of what you're thinking? And they may say, yep, that's exactly what we're thinking. Or no, that's way more than what we thought. If that's the case, call's over. But if I'm close and they say, yeah, we were thinking around $40,000, that was our budget. I know I can deliver it for somewhere between $35,000 and $40,000. Then I'm good to go to come out to their house and charge them a consultation. do a detailed walkthrough with them. Of course, I'm going to measure everything and look at the project. And then I'll be able to give them an estimate based on that. And as long as we're under that $40,000 or less price range, we're golden, job moves forward, everybody's happy. So that is in and of itself the process of what you should be applying to your business. Now, I'm going to reiterate what I said earlier. Some of you will hear what I'm saying. You will try to apply this in your same demeanor of which you always use the talk in, and it's going to blow up in your face. You have to learn how to communicate with people. This is higher level sales. When you want to get to this part of your business, when you want to get to the game to where you can sell a $100,000 project over the phone without looking at it in person. and then going out to their house and collecting a 10% deposit, a $10,000 deposit for that project or a 40% or whatever, and then close them on site. So you pre-close them on the phone, you go out, collect the deposit, or you collect the consultation and you move them to the next step in the process. That is the higher level sales game. That's when you know you're good at sales. And I thought I was awesome at sales for the first nine years of business. Turns out I was just too cheap. And I'm a likable guy in person. And so when I got in front of them, you know, that whole once I get in front of them, I close them 90% of the time. That whole conversation, that was me for nine years. The other wild card factor to this is it's one thing to close somebody on the phone, charge an estimate, charge for a consultation and get the job. when you're only getting a 30% gross profit and you're cheaper than everyone else. That's one thing. It's a totally different thing when you're the most expensive contractor bidding on the job and you're still closing them on the phone and then going out and charging for a consultation or collecting a deposit. That is the upper echelon of sales. That's where you want to be in your business. The good news right now for most of you is that we have so many leads coming in. You can practice and afford to lose some of these leads. I wouldn't recommend practicing on your actual customers. I would recommend practicing with other contractors or spouses or whoever before you do that. But you have the luxury of having so many leads available that if you lose 50% of them, it's not a big deal right now. Several years ago, That wasn't the case. You may only get in two or three leads a month and you needed to close one or two of those to stay in business. Right now, you're probably getting three to five leads a day and you only need one or so a week to stay in business. That's a totally different game. Okay. That's another reason why you need to protect your time. I was spending 10 to 15 hours every week doing free estimates. And once I started charging for estimates, it dropped down to about two to three hours a week. So I went from working 60 plus hours a week on average to being able to work 50 hours a week on average and not do any more work. That's a game changer for most people. Most contractors that I talk to that are looking for help are working 60,70,80 hours a week. They're working all day on the tools,40 hours a week. They're looking at jobs in the evening. Or Saturday, they're doing estimates, invoices, and payroll and stuff on Saturdays and weekends and nights. They're doing this six days a week, seven days a week. They're on the crazy cycle. And they want to argue with me about why free estimates don't work. Or I mean, why you can't charge for estimates. Why they have to do free estimates. I had this same conversation. It's funny. Just this week on TikTok. I made a video about being stuck in your business because where we get to in our business, when we get to a point like doing free estimates, that's a belief system that we have around what's possible. And then our decision-making ability that we have available tells us I have to do free estimates to stay in business, right? It's a belief that we have. And our beliefs and our decision-making abilities get us to a certain point in our business. And then we get stuck. We plateau because we don't have the correct beliefs or the correct decision-making capabilities to take us to the next level. And I made a video referencing this. And there is a painter on there who, I mean, he does a lot of videos. I like him. He's got good content. Looks like a good painter. But he posted one video about going out and looking at jobs and doing free estimates. And I just made a comment about, you know, you could save 10,20 hours a week by not doing free estimates. Of course, his response to me was, it works well for me. So I'm not going to try and change something that works well. I said, okay, whatever. So I made this video and he commented and his response was, man, how much gross profit are you making in your business? And I asked them, I said, that's an interesting question. What makes you ask that? And his response was, well, I only want to take advice from someone who's gone further than I have. And I'm thinking, this is my thoughts to myself. You mean like two weeks ago when I told you that you could save 10 hours a week or more in your business? What do you think that would do in terms of being able to scale your business? If you had an extra 10 to 15 hours of free time every week, how much more time would you be able to devote towards your business to be able to scale it? So he's looking at it externally, meaning someone to say, do this and this and this and add these people and do this. And that's how you're going to scale. In reality, if you want to scale a business, most of the time it's internally. You have to change your beliefs. And for him, it would start with... changing his belief around doing free estimates. That's the type of clients that I won't work with because they have a fixed belief system. They believe it's an external factor. It's just a matter of getting more leads and hiring more people and putting more crews together. And that's it. And that's all it is. And most of the time it's not. It usually requires internal belief shifts as the owner of the business to be able to get to that level. So free estimates. I hope you see now why if you do free estimates in 2022, you are a loser. You're a financial loser. You're a time loser. And you are causing your clients to be losers too because you're not giving them your best. So I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Make sure you like and subscribe. Do me a favor, share the podcast with other contractors. I want to get the word out there to help as many as possible. Leave me a review. If you get any value whatsoever out of any of my podcasts, please go and leave a review. Whatever platform you're listening on, I'd really appreciate it. And you know where to find me. All the social media, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram. We got a Discord channel up now. I'm really pushing a lot of content towards Discord because I can have more. in-depth conversations on there and I can share all of my information and consolidate it there. So if you're not following us on Discord, go search. It's Hammer and Grind, just like everything else. Hammer and Grind podcast on the social media is make sure you're following. Join our free Facebook group. And if you're interested in taking your business to the next level, reach out and I can share with you about the Profit Club. Hey guys, until next time, you know what to do. Be the best version of you.
