Episode•June 16, 2025•33 min

EP223: The Paid Estimate Blueprint | Part 1 - The Process

Being able to successfully charge for your services is not only a smart business move in the very competitive contracting and service-based industries, but it's also an important part of professional ethics and self-worth. Contractors can improve their profitability and reputation with clients by changing the way estimates are perceived from transactions to beneficial consultations. In this episode, Brad talks about: The metaphor of overcoming challenges in life and business Defining what a true estimate entails The process of charging for consultations Importance of setting a minimum charge for estimates Steps to streamline the client intake process How to effectively communicate value to clients Link to Resources: Grab Brad's tell-all book: The Contractor Profit Blueprint https://thecontractorprofitblueprint.com Help us get the word out to other contractors by leaving us a review or sharing our podcast! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Transcript

0:03

If someone's willing to pay $250,500, $2,500 to have you come out and do an estimate, we're already 95% sold. You've already sold the job. Hey, welcome back to the podcast. On this episode, we're going to be talking about the paid estimate blueprint. And you probably noticed a little bit different audio and video quality. And that's because sometimes crap just goes wrong. And today is one of those situations because I just got down to recording half of this podcast and my computer crashed. It's gone. It's got to have some work done. So I'm redoing this on my cell phone because we got to get the job done. The show must go on. So bear with me as we... deal with some of these problems. But isn't that a great metaphor for life? Like sometimes things happen. This morning I woke up and my refrigerator was leaking water everywhere. At some point earlier than I started leaking, leaked through the first floor into the basement. And luckily the laundry room was right below this area. And it's the only room in the entire house that doesn't have a finished ceiling. So the water came through, it's leaking all over the floor. I had a big puddle. Come in the office, my computer crashes. Like that's just how life goes sometimes. but we still got to get the job done. So we're going to push through this. I apologize in advance if the audio and video is not up to par, but sometimes that's just how it is, guys. Sometimes good enough is good enough. All right. So the paid estimate blueprint. Part one, this is when we're talking about the process today and on the next episode, I'm going to dig into the value aspect of it because there's two reasons why we do a paid estimate blueprint. We do the paid estimate blueprint to save time. On average, my clients save anywhere from 10 to 15 hours per week. You heard that right, per week by not doing free estimates anymore. So there's a huge time-saving element to that. But the second and the real reason, the more valuable reason for doing this is because the process allows us to present ourselves as the best option and a high-priced option so that we can sell jobs at higher profit margins. Because you've probably already told you, take your cogs times two, get a 50% gross profit. And if you do that, you're going to have a very healthy business. But usually they're like, that sounds great, Brad, but there's no way people are going to pay that much when a guy down the street can do it for half price. Well, that's because you don't have a good sales process. You don't understand the value to price discrepancy. You don't understand how to provide value through the sales process. And that is what next week's episode is going to be about. So make sure you come back and listen to that one as well. But today... I'm sharing with you what the process looks like, like how we actually set this up. I don't want you guys to have any reason not to be able to do this, not to be able to charge for estimates and not to be able to get paid what you're worth. So I'm going to unpack all this for you. So what is the paid estimate blueprint? Well, before we get into that, we have to kind of define what doing an estimate is. Now, if you have a type of person that just goes out to a job with your tape measure, takes a few measurements, and gives them a number, that is not an estimate. I mean, yes, it is an estimate, but that's not what we're talking about, okay? You're just taking orders and you're just giving them information. When we do estimates, it's more than an estimate. It's actually a consultation because the reality of it is when we go out and meet with people, that's usually not what's happening. We're usually not just taking measurements and giving them a price. Usually they're asking us questions about, materials, what works best, what doesn't work best. We're talking about ideas, best practices, ways to do this, what's possible, what's not possible. So it's much more involved than just taking measurements and giving them a piece of paper. That's why we call those consultations because that's what you're doing. You're consulting with them. You are the expert. You're the subject matter expert and you're consulting with your clients on best practices. That is worth something. Okay. That is completely worth value in time. And so you should be paid for that. Whenever we do a paid estimate or we charge for doing estimates or consultations. Generally, what we do is how long does it take us? And this is going to vary. How long from the time we leave our office until we get there and how much time do we spend with them and then drive back to the office and then put the estimate together and then we submit it to them? How long does that process take? Is it one hour? Is it five hours? Is it 20 hours? Obviously, the bigger the job, the more time it takes. But whatever it takes. times what your value is to the company is what you should be charging. So I can tell you right off the bat at a minimum, and this is the bare minimum, your time as the owner of a company is worth at least $100 an hour, at least, okay? So if it takes us on average four hours to put together an estimate and our minimum time is $100, you should be charging at least $400 for that. consultation. Okay. Now this is not a hard and fast rule. Can you charge less? Absolutely. Can you charge more? Absolutely. But at a minimum, what you want to get out of it is if you go and spend this time and the client doesn't buy from you, you've at least gotten paid. So you're not out time or money, right? You've basically broke even now. And setting that aside for a second, the minimum you should charge for a consultation. is at least $250. So regardless if you spend two hours, one hour, four hours, it doesn't matter. The minimum you should be charging is $250. Why? Because anything less than that does not hurt enough. You're like, what do you mean, Brad? It doesn't hurt their pocketbook. If you're only charging $50 for an estimate, you basically are getting laughed at because it's not enough. Guys, I'll pay someone 50 bucks to come out and give me an estimate and I have zero intentions of hiring them. $50 is nothing. I'll pay it all day to get a third opinion or a fourth opinion. I'll call five contractors and if they all charge me 50 bucks, no problem. I'll have them come out and give me an opinion so I can have more information. It has to hurt the pocketbook. That's why it has to be at least 250 bucks. Now, I'm going to contradict myself right now. If you have a mental block. If you just mentally cannot, for whatever reason, charge $250, you just cannot bring yourself to that, then start small. Start at 50 bucks, then 100 bucks, and then 150, and then 200, then 250. Do whatever it takes to get over that mental block. But I'm telling you, for normal operations,250 is the minimum, okay? Now, I have clients that charge $2,500 to go out and do a consultation. And there's anywhere in between. That depends on if you're providing drawings or not, if you're providing designs, if the client wants designs, but you don't normally do it. If you always do a design, regardless of the client wants it, there's lots of reasons and calculations of how to figure out the best pricing. But generally, the estimate itself is a small investment of a minimum of $250. up to whatever it is to cover your time. And then any design work on top of that is an additional price. And that does not get credited back. Now, the consultation typically gets credited back to the final invoice because once we've sold the job, we can justify to ourselves that our time we spent was worth it because they hired us. And the client can have a little bit of reprieve or a little bit of You know, it helps soften the burden of them having to pay if they know they're going to get the money back. Okay. You don't have to do that. That's just what I recommend, what I did and what most of my clients do. But the estimate is one price. The design is another. The design costs money. It does not get credited. The consultation gets credited if they hire you. If they don't hire you, they don't get the money back. Okay. That's the basis. That's the premise that we're setting here. So how does this look? In real time, you get a lead through your website or a phone or a text. So there's only two ways. There's going to be through your website or there's going to be, you know, they're going to contact you. If they're going through your website, hopefully on your website, you have it laid out as this is our process. And you should do this, by the way. But here's our three-step process. Here's our process. Here's our five-step process. Here's how we, you know, we do things a little bit different. Here's what we do. Like you have something explaining to them the process so they know before they get into it what they're getting into. And you simply say, step one is you contact us and fill out the form and you submit it to us some pictures. Step two is we're going to get on a call and discuss your project and see, you know, what you're wanting done and make sure that we're the right contractor to help you. And then step three is to schedule an on-site consultation. You know, if it makes sense, essentially. Okay. That's what you're doing. You're outlining that process. You're not outlining the entire process of start to finish. You're just outlining the next steps. What the next process, the next steps in the process look like. Phase one, you want to call it that. You're outlining phase one of the project. Okay. Or of the process rather. So on your website you have on there, you should hopefully have ways for them to upload pictures because that is a requirement. We have to have pictures of their project so that we have a general idea of what they want, right? It doesn't have to be perfect pictures. It doesn't have to be closeups and detail. And it's just a general idea. If I want a bathroom remodel, then I just need to take a picture of the bathroom, right? If I want a kitchen remodel, I just stand back in the corner of the kitchen and take a picture of the whole kitchen. That's it. Just a general, general, general basic idea. And then an inspiration photo, if they have one of what they want it to look like or what, you know, what types of design or what types of style they want, they can have some inspiration photos. Okay. Now on my website, I had the process that I had the questions that I would ask, and then I would have the place where you would upload your pictures. And in that I had directions on how to take pictures. Why? Because there's nothing worse than getting pictures. And then you got to call the client back and say, Hey, Mrs. Jones, thanks for sending the pictures. But the ones you took were blurry or you had, you zoomed in so close to one piece of tile on your backsplash that I can't, I couldn't even tell what the whole project looked like. So I had an explanation on there. When you're taking pictures of your project, do this, you know? We need general pictures. We don't need close-ups, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm instructing them on how to do business with me. And you know what? I never had problems with people submitting pictures. 90% of the people would submit pictures automatically and they would be good pictures. 10% would struggle or they didn't want to upload pictures and I had to get the pictures later. But you can make this process super easy for you by simply giving your clients instructions on your website. You may think, well, that's common sense. It doesn't matter. People like to be told what to do. They like to know exactly what to do. They don't want to guess on what they're supposed to do. So have very clear instructions. Okay. That's the website. Whenever they submit the form with the pictures, you now have the information. You can use an automation. You can manually do this, but you're going to contact them and say, thank you for contacting us about your project. Here's a link to schedule a call with us. And you're going to, they're going to schedule a call with you. what we call a discovery call. So we're going to schedule a discovery call with you. You have the pictures, you know what they want. You're going to get on the call with them and you're going to have a conversation. You're not going to sell anything. You're just having a conversation to discover what it is that's important about this project, why they want it done, and a very, very, very, very limited amount of information about the scope. so that you can give some pricing on that call. Okay? We'll get into that here in a second. You get the pictures. You send them a link. They schedule a call. That's through the website. Let's say they call you or text you or email you. You reach out to them and say, Cindy, thank you so much for reaching out to us. Our process is a little bit different, and a lot of our clients really seem to enjoy it. We like to have you send us some pictures of your project. And then we will jump on another call where we'll find out more about your project, make sure we can help you. And then I'll even be able to share with you on that call what other clients have invested for some of the projects. That's our process. That's what we're telling them. Usually they'll say, sounds great. When I get home from work, I'll text you some pictures. I'll send you some pictures. Or I got some pictures now I can send them to you. We're not trying to sell or find out information on that call. Now we call that a mini discovery call. Because occasionally you'll get into a tiny bit of scope and a tiny bit of information, but that's not the purpose, right? The purpose is to get the pictures to schedule the next call. Why do we want to do this? Well, because I want to be able to review the information ahead of time. If they send me pictures, I can now go in, I can Google search, I can do some calculations. I can look at past projects in order to figure out. a ballpark or what something like this may cost. It's going to allow me to prepare for the call rather than trying to do it all at one time where I'm not prepared. If someone sends me a picture, I got pictures right here I can send you. They send them to me. I'm like, okay. The client's on the other end listening. I'm like, yeah, I'm looking at your pictures. I can't process this. I can't think on my feet fast enough to factor in all the things that may be in this project and then I might miss something. So you put that time separation on purpose to allow you to be better prepared for the sales call. That's if they contact you, right? We got the website version. We got the contact version. We're getting pictures regardless. We got to have pictures. And then we schedule a discovery call.

15:07

Hey, just a quick timeout from the show. If you're a frustrated contractor who's dealing with low profit margins, stuck working on the tools every day, or doing free estimates for people who are never going to hire you in the first place. I invite you to my private contractor community, The Profit Club, where contractors just like you are adding two to three times more profit each year without producing any more jobs and finally getting completely off the tools to never do another free estimate again. So if you're ready to increase your profits, stop doing free estimates and get off the tools, then all you have to do is click the link in the show notes to learn more about The Profit Club. and see how I can easily two to three times the cash in your pocket, give you a proven sales process that will convert more jobs with ease and get you off the tools once and for all. And the best part is you can do all of this without having to produce more jobs than you currently are. Click the link to learn more. Now let's get back to the show.

16:01

On the discovery call, we're going to ask... A bunch of questions. We're going to ask the nine calibrated questions, which I've given out and have access to. They're in my No BS Guide to Eliminate Tire Kickers. If you want to download that, those questions are in there. But we ask the nine questions and we figure out what is important to them. Why do they want to do this project? We're listening. We're being empathetic, showing compassion, showing interest, high energy. We're going through the process. Once we get enough information, then we give them a ballpark on the phone. It's just a ballpark. Again, I'll share more about this in the second episode, next week's episode. We'll get more into this, but we're getting a ballpark of what the project costs. And as long as we're in the ballpark, if I tell them, you know, projects like this in the past have ran somewhere between 60 and 40,000. Does that make sense to you? Is that what you were thinking? Like, yeah, we thought it was going to be like 40,50,000. Awesome. So we're in the ballpark. The timeline's good. We've pre-qualified all that. Now is the point for the online consultation. I'm sorry, the in-person consultation or on-site consultation. And so then we tell them, you know, well, it sounds like everything's aligned. Where do you want to go from here? Well, we'd love to have you come out and give us an estimate. Perfect. Love to do that. We do have a small investment up front. It's 250, it's 500, it's a thousand or whatever. And then that does get credited, blah, blah, blah, blah. We go through the process. So now we book the on-site consultation and then we... Then we can either have another link that we can send them that is where they can schedule a time that works for them. We can do it on the call, which is what I recommend. Try to schedule it on the call if they got to talk to their spouse. Try to schedule it anyways, and then they can cancel if they need to. If we can't schedule anything, I'm going to at least get a callback or a follow-up time, agree with them, and then we're going to get the onsite scheduled. Then once we have the onsite scheduled, we go out there, we meet with them, we do the estimate, we do the consult, and we give them the price. We give them the estimate, the actual detail or the final price estimate, and then we book them. Okay? Now, here's the thing. That's it in a nutshell. Here's the thing. If someone's willing to pay $250, $500, $2,500 to have you come out and do an estimate that are already 95% sold, you've already sold the job. Okay? Your job at that point is to just connect with them on a personal level in person, like you're further building that relationship. And then you're going to present them with the estimate, whether you can do it right then on site, or you have to go back and do it and submit it to them. The job's already sold. It's already 95% sold. This is why I've said an estimate or in my videos, like you're doing estimates wrong. You don't go out and meet with someone and then do an estimate and then see if the job is sold. You pre-sell them on the phone and then you go out and you double check and verify that what they talked about is what's actually out there and that the budget is going to align with the final estimate. Okay. Now we'll get more of this in the next, the next episode too, but I just want to touch on this a little bit. When you're doing your ballpark, most people get this wrong. The purpose of the ballpark is not to give them an exact price. Well, Brad, I got to go out there and look at it to give them an estimate. No, you don't. I don't give a crap what it is you do. I do not care. I don't care if you build airports. I don't care if you build space shuttles. I don't care if you clean gutters. You do not have to go out there and look at that to give a ballpark price. If you're fighting me on this, it's because you're so closed-minded and you're so freaking stubborn and your ego is so big that you just can't. take any new information. Okay. I'm promise you with, and I'll bet any amount of money, you do not need to see it in person in order to give a ballpark. I don't even have to have pictures to give someone a ballpark. Now pictures do help and I do recommend them, but you don't even have to have pictures to give a ballpark. And here's why. If you've done your thing for more than one year, or you've done more than three projects of this thing, whether it's bathroom remodels, kitchen remodels, backyard, patios, pools, roofs, I don't care what it is. If you've done a few of them, you have factual data of what things cost. So you take your most expensive project that you've ever done and you take your cheapest project that you've ever done and that's your ballpark. But Brad, they're like way different. It doesn't matter. Your most expensive project was $300,000. Your cheapest project was $30,000. That can be your ballpark. You know, John, we've done lots of projects and I can tell you on the high end, the most expensive one we've ever done is $300,000. And the cheapest one we've ever done is $30,000. Where would you like to be at? You know, where do you want to be at in regards to investment? That's it. Now, again, I'll get into more details in the next episode, why we do that, how it works, the psychology behind it. But I'm just telling you right now, you don't have to go out in person. to look at the project in order to give a ballpark. The point of a ballpark is not to give detail pricing. The point of the ballpark and the only point, and I do mean the only point is to get their budget. That's it. You say, well, Brad, why can't I just ask them their budget? That's what I usually do because they're going to lie to you. That's why they're going to lie or they're going to stress the truth a little bit. Every person believes that if me, the client tells you, the contractor, that my budget is 30,000 and you, Could actually do that job for $25,000 the exact way I want. If you're going to automatically charge me $30,000 because I told you that's what I had and you're going to get an extra five grand and I'm going to get screwed and I don't want that to happen. So what do we do? Oh, my budget is somewhere around $25,000 knowing that my budget is $30,000. Why? Because we want to give ourselves wiggle room. What you're doing when you ask your clients for a budget is you are instantly inserting conflict into the conversation. You are forcing me, the client, to choose sides now. Now I have to be defensive. Now I have to decide, do I really trust Brad enough or this other guy enough to give him the real amount or should I lie or fake it? So by doing ballparks, we eliminate that completely. We completely eliminate the conflict, the uncomfortableness of it, and we make it an enjoyable process. And all my clients who implement this, have great, great success. Yes, it does not feel normal in the beginning. Yes, it feels like it's not going to work. Yes, it's counterintuitive to what you might think. But guess what? Anytime you learn something new, isn't it always counterintuitive? Because if you already knew about it, then you didn't learn it new, right? Whenever we learn a new concept, a new way of doing things. It normally seems counterintuitive the first time you learn it, the first time you hear about it. But I promise you this works. I've worked with hundreds of contractors. It works great. They've had major success. People that I've never talked to but bought the book or watched my videos have implemented it on their own without my help and have had success. It works. I promise you it works. You just have to be open-minded to it. Okay? Now, if you try to implement this on your own, you may screw it up because, well, you don't have all the information. Okay, I can't give you all the information in one video, but I have given you the blueprint. I have given you how we do it. This is how we actually do it. This is the process. Okay, like I said, next week, I'm going to go into more of the details of how you provide value in this process, but this is the actual process that we do. Now, one question you're probably thinking. Well, Brad, what if I told him the ballpark 60 to 40 and I get out there and it's just, you know, it's going to be an $80,000, $100,000 project because they lied to me about this or this or this. That can't happen. It absolutely can't happen. It's happened to me. Usually, if someone has concerns about that, we just say, well, look, if I come out there and I can't do this project for at least $60,000, then I'll give you your money back. I have no problem doing that. Right? And that's it. If I go out there, I'll be like, hey, Mike. I know I told you 60 to 40, but what we're looking at here, I didn't know that this was in place. I didn't know this was a load bearing wall. You know, you told me that the plumbing was there. It's not there. Whatever the reason, I didn't realize that this project is going to end up being closer to like 70,80,000 instead of 60. You know, I'm more than happy to give you your, the console back because I missed that. But I just want to be open and honest with you. This is where it's going to be. Nine times out of 10. They don't ask for their money back. I understand. Makes sense. You know, just let us know what's going to be. That way we can make a decision. There's always ways to solve for problems. After you implement this process, if things come up, there's word tracks, there's a way to handle it. I can't cover every single possible scenario on this video, on this podcast, but there's always a way to solve for the problem. Okay? I'm going to leave you with a couple key things here. Sales. in general, is about tonality. It's about emotion. A lot of contractors are very factual. They're very direct. And they're very product-driven. So what happens is they ask questions. They're like, when do you want this done? Oh, we're looking at somewhere in the next three weeks. I'm booked out for three months. Sorry, I can't help you. Guys, just because someone tells you they want it in three weeks and you're booked up three months doesn't mean that that's the end of the conversation. It just means that's what they were hoping. They may wait a year for you if they feel like you're the person. So like you have to really check your ego here when you're talking to people. Is it going to take you 20 to 30 minutes, maybe 40 minutes to do a phone call? Yes. Is that better than going out there and meeting with them and spending three to four hours doing an estimate and not getting a job? Yes, it's still better. If you can sit at your desk and have five calls and three of them want to do an onsite, then you save yourself potentially two to eight hours, depending on how long it takes you to go do an estimate. That's how you can easily save 10 to 15 hours or more per week by implementing this system. So you can't be rigid. You can't be just product driven. You have to trust the process and you have to employ empathy. You have to employ compassion. You have to actually give a shit about your customers. Now, if all you care about is selling jobs, this probably ain't going to work for you, right? Because I only work with contractors who are ethical, who have integrity, that want to do right by their customers. All my stuff is driven towards those type of people. If all you care about is making money and buying Lambos. this probably has got to work for you. Go get one of the high pressure sales tactics that are out there. Lots of them out there. Go use and learn from those people. That's not what this is. This is the most natural and comfortable and positive type of selling you can do. It's consultative selling and it's high energy and people love it. My clients love it. My contractors love it. Their customers love it. Everyone loves it. And it feels so natural and it feels so good that you'll never go back to doing a free estimate again. But you have to trust the process and you have to do it this way. Anytime someone tries to remove a piece of it or shortcut it, it doesn't work. It falls flat on its face. And then I get a message that says, this crap doesn't work. That's not the problem. You didn't work it right. That's a you problem. It's not a me problem. I have case studies. I have videos. I have... screenshots. I mean, I can go into my community and just like take a hundred screenshots easily of people winning and conversations they've had because we have those conversations daily in our, in our community. And it's like, Hey, I just sold another one. I just sold a console. This is my fifth, you know, fifth consult this week. I just closed this person. I did this. We're having those conversations because we celebrate wins. And so we're seeing that happening in real time. So I know it works. Because I did it for many years, and then my clients are doing it with great success. The process works. You have to work the process. Don't reinvent the wheel. Last thing I want to say here. This is, even people that come into the coaching and try this have problems. In the very beginning, when you start doing this, you're going to want to talk product. You're going to want to talk technical. This process has nothing to do with product or technical. I can sell you. $100,000 kitchen. Okay. I can sell you a $100,000 kitchen remodel without talking about any product whatsoever. Not talking about whether you're doing granite or you're doing a solid surface. Not talking about what kind of tile. Not talking about what kind of appliances. Not talking about what kind of cabinets you want. I can sell that job without talking anything specific about details or products. The problem is because you're a craftsman and because that is where you are the strongest. You are the strongest with the product and the technical aspect of it. Your brain is screaming the whole time you're trying something new. Let's talk about product. Let's just talk about product because then we can show them how knowledgeable we are and they'll have to hire us because we know so much. Wrong. Your clients do not give two crafts about your knowledge, about how much you know about the product. In fact, once people have gotten the basics down when we do role plays, Then we make them role play as a contractor for a product that they've never done before. So if you're a flooring installer, we make you sell a bathroom remodel. If you're a bathroom remodeler, we make you sell a landscaping project. If you're a landscaping project, we make you sell a painting project. If you're a painter, we make you sell a flooring project. Why? Because you can't rely on the technical to save you whenever you start screwing up. You don't have to be good and know a lot about what you do. It's actually hurtful. It's a curse when you do know a lot because what you'll typically start doing is puking all over your client with information. You'll word vomit all over your client because you're struggling of like, okay, what questions do I ask? And I'm not going to give an estimate. I'm going to give a ballpark on this. And they ask, well, Brad, I got a question. Should we do heated floors? Like we're thinking about doing heated tile floors in the bathroom. Should we do that? And your brain goes, yes, I know all about heated tile floors. Let me spend the next 15 minutes doing a complete dissertation of all the pros and cons about heated tile floors. When in reality, all the client was asking you was, is it value there or not? And you could be like, you know, heated tile floors, or there's one of those things where, you know, either be beloved or hate it. And like, that could be all the information you have to share. And they'll be like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. But what we do is we like technical. I know this. Let me word vomit. Now it frees my brain from thinking about the process. Now I can talk about this and that can literally shoot you in the foot. So I know this sounds crazy to you. Some of you watching this or listening to this are like, This guy is a complete moron, doesn't know what he's talking about. I've been doing sales construction for 30 years and I've never, I have to go out and look at it. I have to talk about the details. You don't have to believe me. That's fine. You're not actually the type of person that I want to work with anyways, if that's your mindset, because you're too close minded. The people that have the most success in business are extremely open minded to trying new ways, new ideas, new things. And those are the ones that come into the program and have phenomenal success, phenomenal success. So this is the process guys. This is the paid estimate process. Go to the comments. Let me know. Are you doing anything like this? Let me know your thoughts of if you want to try this, uh, I do have some information that I could, you know, more information I could send you. I can send you the, the paid, uh, I'm sorry, the, the no BS guide to eliminating tire kickers. I can send that to you. And, uh, next week. We're going to dive a lot deeper into the value, how to provide value, what I call value stacking, and how to ask these questions in order to give you the highest chance for success when you're doing the sales call. Thanks for hanging out with me. You can always find me on the socials, the Hammer and Grind podcast. Follow me, send a like, share it with another contractor, leave a review. And until next time, remember, profit is not a dirty word.