EP227: Healing from Betrayal | Insights from Dr. Debi Silber

Thanks so much. Looking forward to our conversation.

Yeah, sure. Dr. Debbie Silver, founder and CEO of the PBT Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and National Forgiveness Day, celebrated every year September 1st. I'm in business 34 years. health, mindset, personal development. I had a really painful betrayal from my family. I thought I did everything I needed to do to heal from that. And then it happened a few years later. This time it was my husband. That was the deal breaker. So usually I go to books or courses or something to help me and I couldn't find anything. So this was for me so big. I had to study it so big. So I... found myself enrolling in a PhD program. I had four kids, six dogs, a thriving business, but I needed a way out of this just so I could function and get back to being there for my kids and my clients. And I studied betrayal. It was time to do a study. I studied betrayal. That study led to three groundbreaking discoveries, which changed my health, my family, my work, my life.

Yeah, it's in transpersonal psychology, the psychology of transformation, human potential. I'm fascinated with the mind, why we do what we do, you know, but not just digging into the past. What can we do with where we're at? That's the part that really gets me. I'm sure you've

Yeah, I just define it as the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule. And every relationship has them. And the way it works is the more we trust, the more we depend on the person, the deeper the betrayal. So a child who's totally dependent on their parent and the parent does something awful, that's going to have a different impact than, let's say, your coworker taking credit for your idea, your best friend sharing your secret. Still betrayals, different level of cleanup. left in the wake of it.

You know, not everybody has had the major betrayal. Some people have had the major ones and there's a lot to do to clean that up. And it becomes an opportunity to truly transform and become a version of you. You never saw coming. You didn't have access to. Then there were the smaller ones to the like death by a thousand cuts behind, you know, but then there are other things to like, here's an example. We can live an entire life in a limited way based on a misperception. And here's what I mean. Let's say. And I'm not suggesting this is what happened to you. But let's say you were a little kid and you had some earth shattering news to share with your mom. And she was on the phone. So she was like, she shushed you. Right there in that moment, you could have made that mean I don't matter. Now, the mind believes whatever you tell it. So now you infuse it with some feeling. And then the mind is looking for confirming evidence. So now you go about your day and you're looking for evidence that someone accidentally closes the door on you. There it is. You know, I don't matter. Someone cuts you off in traffic. I don't matter. And then what happens is we build a case around it. And so if this is a belief and this is the thought that you keep having, your mind is like, oh, okay, I didn't realize you wanted this playing all day. No worries. Go about your business and I'll have this running as a subconscious program. So it's playing all day long. And if this is the thought that now becomes a belief, your beliefs drive everything. So think about the work you do, who you'd spend your time with, the opportunities you wouldn't say yes to for something as simple, as simple as your mom shushing you that has been left kind of unhealed.

So often. I mean, we see with betrayal, first of all, a classic sign of an unhealed betrayal is repeat betrayal. The face is changed, but it's the same thing. So you go from boss to boss to boss, you know, partner to partner to partner. You say, you know, is it me? Yes, it is. Not in that it's your fault, in that it's your opportunity. There's a huge lesson waiting to be learned, like get it already that you're lovable, worthy and deserving. You know, understand you need better boundaries in place, whatever it is, until and unless you get that, you're going to have opportunities in the form of people to teach you. So to answer your question, if you had what you perceived as a betrayal when you were younger, maybe neglect, right? Whatever it was, abandonment, whatever you felt. Now you move into your adult relationships, not that they're good. It's familiar. You're like, oh, I know how to do this. I know how this works. I know my role in this scenario. So it's really common to have experiences and have relationships that kind of model what was left unhealed. Class kind of an unhealed betrayal.

I'll tell you another one. Someone interviewed me and, you know, he said, a young guy, and he's like, you know, I wasn't betrayed. And I'm like, listen, not everybody is. Go you. That's amazing. And then we start talking and he says, Oh my God. Because, you know, I remember there was one time like my brother used to take all my toys and break them and I couldn't take it. So I had this, this toy that I loved and, and I didn't want him to play with it because I knew he was going to take it and break that toy. I said, I don't want you to play with it. And he's like, no, no, no. I promise I'll be really careful. Sure enough, he broke the toy. And so it was a breaking of trust, a little kid over a toy. But you see, because of that, he goes. I get it now why I don't want to share anything with anybody. This stuff runs deep. Yeah,

You know, the first one was I had a feeling that betrayal was a different type of trauma. I'd been through death of a loved one. I'd been through disease. And I was like, you know what? Betrayal feels different for me. I didn't want to assume. It was the same for all my study participants. So I asked him, if you've been through other traumas, does it feel different for you? Unanimously. They said it's so different. Here's why. Because it feels so intentional, we take it so personally. So the entire self gets shattered. Rejection, abandonment, belonging, confidence, worthiness, trust. Like when you lose someone you love, you grieve, you're sad, you mourn the lost life will never be the same. But you don't question that relationship. right? You don't question your ability to trust. You don't question your sanity. With betrayal, you do. So that betrayal is a different type of trauma that needs a different way to heal. That was the first discovery.

And most people go to, there are typical ways people go to treat betrayal and that's why it stays. And that's why they don't heal from it. And that's why it repeats itself because they're treating it as if it's another type of trauma. It needs a very different way to heal because the invitation isn't just to rebuild your life. Like if you lose someone you love, you also have to rebuild the self. That's a whole other thing to do.

The second discovery was there's actually a collection of symptoms, physical, mental, and emotional, so common to betrayalists known as post-betrayal syndrome. Now, we've had over 100,000 people take our post-betrayal syndrome quiz on our site to see to what extent they're struggling. First of all, a few things about that. We've all been taught time heals all wounds, right? I have the proof that when it comes to betrayal, that's not true. There's a question on the quiz that says, is there anything else you'd like to share? People write things like, my betrayal happened 35 years ago. I'm never trusting again. My betrayal happened 15 years ago. Feels like it happened yesterday. So we know we can't count on time. We can't even count on a new relationship to heal it. Until and unless it's intentionally and deliberately healed, it will follow you around in your work, in your health, in your relationships. Happy to share how that shows up. And I also, every few months, I pull the stats from the quiz to see where people are. Happy to share those too.

Yeah. Okay, so now imagine men, women, just about every country's represented. As much as you're going to hear the symptoms, I want you to hear these numbers too. Ready? 78% constantly revisit their experience. 81% feel a loss of personal power. 80% are hypervigilant. I mean, that's exhausting. 94% deal with painful triggers if you've ever had a trigger. So painful. The most common physical symptoms. 71% have low energy. 68% have sleep issues. 63% have extreme fatigue. 47% have weight changes. So in the beginning, it's hard to hold food down. Later on, you're emotionally eating. 45% have a digestive issue. And that could be anything. Crohn's, IBS, iVeticulitis. And think about it. Here you are, you're trying to work, trying to raise your kids, take care of elderly parents. You're a wreck. You're exhausted. How do you function at your job if you're exhausted? Right? How are you showing up at work? The most common mental symptoms,78% are overwhelmed. 70% are walking around in a state of disbelief. 64% are in shock. 62% can't concentrate. Take that to work with you. Like, how are you going to do at your job if you can't concentrate? Emotionally,88% experience extreme sadness. 83% are very angry. Take that anger to the workplace, right? What's that going to do as far as conflict? Do you see how that goes? Something doesn't go your way during your workday. 84% have an inability to trust. Think about what an inability to trust would do if you're trying to partner with someone, you know, in some capacity or, you know, or anything that you're doing. 67% prevent themselves from forming deep relationships because they're afraid of being hurt again. They're putting the big wall up. They're like, nope, been there, done that. No one's getting near me again. It was, their heart was so hurt. They'd rather keep everyone at a distance. then take that chance to let anybody get close again. So now think about it. What kind of, who are you going to have as friends, you know, partners, collaborators, if you're keeping everyone at a distance? 82% find it hard to move forward. 90% want to move forward, but they don't know how. And here's what's even crazier. You didn't hear me say 20%,30%, right? Numbers are super high. They're also not necessarily representative of something that happened recently. This could be from that betrayal that happened when you were a kid. This could be from the partner who broke your heart in high school. So think about this. That person may not know, care, remember, they may not even be alive. And here we are decades later with these symptoms because it was left unhealed. The good news is you can heal from all of it. That was the third discovery.

You know, it has more to do with willingness than time. It's amazing how you would, and I remember doing the research, and this is even before all the members, you know, within the PBT Institute, all the coaches that I've certified, you would think that the ones who were the hardest hit would take the longest because they had the most to overcome that had nothing to do with it. It was the ones who put their head down and said, I am not picking it up until they were out the other side. They blew the doors off. of some of the other ones. And I'll tell you, there were three groups in my study that did not heal. Yeah. But I'll tell you also how quickly you can heal. The first group, this was the group that they had their story. They were sticking with it. They just refused to let go of that story. Okay. They didn't heal. The second group, this was the group that was numbing, avoiding, distracting. They were drinking. They were emotionally eating. They were numbing. And it may have made the day a bit easier to get through, not without a price that didn't heal. The third, this was the group where the betrayer had very little consequences. So whether it was out of financial fear, not wanting to break up a family, religious reasons, that was a big one. They just did all they could to try to like look the other way, turn the other cheek. I saw two things with this group. A further deterioration of the relationship. And this group by far was the most physically sick.

Your broken heart can't handle that. But because we're so afraid of the death and destruction of the old, we can't birth the new.

Yeah, it's true. But that change, you need to look at the price you're paying for that change. But I'll tell you, when you're willing to dive in and get to the root of it, what you get to experience, and like I said, that's the third discovery, just you wouldn't waste a minute. where you were. Like there was a woman in our program in her mid 80s. She had a family betrayal. 70 plus years ago, she was adopted. They didn't tell her like something like that. 70 plus years, she had a digestive issue. So common with betrayal. Two weeks within the program heals from a 70 plus year digestive issue. That's what happens when you deal with the root cause versus just numbing, avoiding, distracting.

They do. Yeah. And actions too.

You want me to share the third discovery? Yes. Okay, because that's where you'll see this. This was the most for me, the most exciting. And what we learned was while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, and most people do, if we're going to fully heal, and by fully heal, I mean those symptoms of post-betrayal syndrome that I just shared to this completely rebuilt place where we've rebuilt our life and ourselves, we will move through five proven. predictable stages. And what's even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally, and emotionally at every stage. And we know what we need to do in order to move from one stage to the next. Healing is entirely predictable. And I'm happy to share the stages if you want to hear them.

Okay. Everybody's going to know, oh, that's exactly where I am. So you'll hear it right here. For sure, someone you know. Stage one before it happens. If you can imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. What I saw with everybody, me too, was a heavy lean on the physical and mental, thinking and doing, right? And kind of neglecting or ignoring the emotional and the spiritual, feeling and being. Well, if a table only has two legs, it's easy for that table to topple over. That's us. Stage two, shock, trauma, D-Day. This is the scariest. out of all of the stages. Here's where the person just takes a mask off and reveals who they've been. This is the day you get passed over for that promotion. This is the day you find out your partner has been living a whole secret life. This is the day, you know, the family takes you out of the will. Like it's like that day, right? And what's happening here is the breakdown of the body, the mind and the worldview right here. You've ignited the stress response. You're now headed for every single stress-related symptom, illness, condition, disease. Your mind is in this complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what you just learned. This makes no sense, right? And your worldview has just been shattered. That's your mental model. The rules that govern you. This person's safe. Don't go there. This is how life works, right? And in one earth-shattering moment, or a series of moments, every rule you've been counting on is no longer. The bottom has bottomed out on you and a new bottom hasn't been formed yet. It's terrifying. But think about it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You'd grab hold of anything or anyone in order to stay safe and stay alive because we always want to stay safe and stay alive. That's stage three. Survival instincts emerge.

This is the most practical. out of all of the stages. If you can't help me, get out of my way. How do I survive this? Who can I trust? How do I feed my kids? Here's the trap though. This stage, and your answer is right here, this is the stage we get stuck in. Here's why. Because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma we just came from, we think it's good. And because we don't know there's anywhere else to go. We don't know there's a stage four. We don't know there's a stage five. So we plant roots here. We're not supposed to, but we don't know that. And four things start to happen. The first thing is you get your story. We love our story. You know, we get to be right. We get someone to blame. We get sympathy from everyone we tell our story to. You know people like this. And because we're not getting much else, we take it. We think it's good. So now because we're here longer than we should be, now the mind starts doing things like, You know, maybe you're not that great. Maybe you deserved it. Maybe this, maybe that. So we plan deeper roots. And now because these are the thoughts we're thinking, this is the energy we start putting out. Like energy attracts like energy. So now we start attracting proof, right? New relationships, new circumstances to, you know, to prove, yep, this is where you belong. Right here, we're going to join some lame support group and you're going to actually sabotage your healing because you found your people. Right here. You're going to go start maybe going to therapy. If that therapist isn't highly skilled in betrayal, you're going to feel heard and validated and understood. And you're actually gluing yourself to stage three. And if you notice, you're going to leave and you're going to feel like you're not going to really feel like you're an inch closer to stage four. So you go back for more and you go back for more and you go back for more, solidifying your spot here. Now, because you don't feel right in this space, you're convinced, you know, maybe going back to the betrayer, maybe I just should be okay with it because it's my best bet. But because you're so miserable right here, but you know you have to get back to work, right? Right here, you start numbing, avoiding, distracting. So you start using food, drugs, alcohol, you know, work, TV, whatever. And you do it for a day. and a week, and a month. Now it's a year,10 years,20 years. And I can see someone 20 years later and say, you know, that drinking you're doing, you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? They look at me like I'm crazy. They'd say it happened 20 years ago. All they did was lock themselves in stage three and stay there. That makes sense? Yeah. Then think about it. Now you're spending your time medicating and suppressing symptoms. You're miserable. Nothing's changed. So you're either having repeat. experiences because if nothing changes, nothing changes, right? And you're just playing whack-a-mole with your symptoms, having, you know, repeat experiences. This is a stage three life. You're thinking stage three thoughts, living a stage three life. It stinks. You don't want to, you know, speak up about that razor promotion. You settle. You're settling in every area of life and we get very comfortable here. And then we're convinced this is the only place we could be. Anyway. If we're willing, this is why I brought up the word willing before, biggest needle mover, if we're willing to let go of the story and all it gives us, grieve more than the last bunch of things we need to do, we move to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where you acknowledge, I can't undo what happened, but I control what I do with it. Just in that decision. You're turning down the stress response. So you're not healing just yet, but you just stopped the massive damage going on that was going on in stages two and stage three. Stage four feels like if you've ever moved anywhere, if you've ever moved to a new, you know, house, office, condo, whatever, your stuff's not there. You know, it's not cozy yet, but you're like, we got this. It's this sort of hopeful excitement. Feels like that. But think about it. If you were to move, you don't take everything with you. You don't take those things that you've outgrown, that don't represent who you're now ready to become. And what I found was there's this one spot as people go from stage three to stage four. If your friends weren't there for you, you're not taking them with you. That lame support group, you're done. That therapist who's keeping you stuck, you're done. That betrayer who's not changing, you're done. And people say to me all the time, what the heck is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation. They don't rise, they don't come along. Anyway. When we've settled into this place, we've made it cozy, we've made it kind of mentally home, we move into the fifth most beautiful stage. And this is healing, rebirth, and a new worldview. The body starts to heal. Self-love, self-care, eating well, exercise. We couldn't do that earlier. We didn't have that. We didn't have the mental space. Now we can. We're making all kinds of new rules, new boundaries based on the road we just traveled. We have a new worldview based on everything. We see so clearly now. And the four legs of the table in the beginning, it was all about the physical and the mental. By this point, we're solidly grounded because now we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages.

Yeah. From my experience, and I've worked with thousands and thousands of people, but yes, I've seen all kinds of experiences, all kinds of careers, but it is very common. And here's why. Here's one of the reasons why. Remember I told you before about that mindset? And we talked a little bit about mindset. And the stage three mindset, we're settling, we've convinced ourselves of our value and our worth. We've convinced ourselves we are not capable, able, entitled to anything other than what we have convinced ourselves we can see. There's a really good chance that was role modeled for us that don't expect anything better than what we've had. We have our own issues of how do I make more than my parents? Like I can't, you know, that's not right. Or we have a perception of what does abundance look like? Everybody I know who, let's say, has a ton of money, they're a jerk. I don't like them. They steal, they do bad things. So then now we're justifying it. So what we do is we create a scenario that enables us to stay here more comfortably. Instead of saying, you know, a belief is no more than the repetition of an idea from someone you trust. That's it. Someone said something enough times, parent, teacher, someone in a religious capacity, sounded good. You made it yours. They stopped saying it years ago. You have repeated it hundreds and hundreds of thousands of times. So now, once the belief is in place, and we have, you know,50 to 70,000 thoughts a day, and you have a belief of, this is the best you can hope for. This is the best you can expect. So then your mind's like, oh, okay. I guess we won't try something different then. But the beauty of betrayal, and I know I just lost everybody when I said that. The beauty of betrayal is life as you've known it has absolutely crashed and burned. There's no patching this up. So the best part about this is once your whole life has been cracked wide open, you get to intentionally and deliberately recreate it in a way that serves you best. So you want to look at everything as you're moving to stage four and a thought comes in your head. You say to yourself, does that thought represent the version of me I want to become? And if the answer is no, you don't take it with you. So leaving stage three and moving into stage four is the hardest jump because it's so easy to settle. But if you're willing to do that work, you're actually rewiring your mind. Like here's a silly example, but it'll show you what I mean. After my betrayal, like I used to be so hard on myself. So critical, so judgmental, you know, just never good enough, that kind of thing. And then after my betrayal, I'm like, I don't want to treat myself like that anymore. I wouldn't speak to anybody like that. Why am I speaking to myself like this? Nope, not doing it. So like, for example, I get lost wherever I go. It's just what I do. So, you know, I know, leave yourself extra time, but I used to get lost, you know, call myself names, whatever. And then I decided from now on, if I do that, it's simply adorable. Everybody's got to agree, you know, and it's things like that. You get to take a look and say, I don't like how harsh and critical I was of myself going forward in this new me that I'm creating. I'm not doing that anymore. Like, it's like this, like I have four kids. I remember when they were little, they used to love Legos, right? And imagine a Lego structure in the corner of a living room, right? It's not good. It's just built. And now imagine the whole thing gets destroyed. Well, the whole idea is now that you have a bunch of pieces around, you don't build the same thing. You build it better, right? Make it more beautiful. That's the opportunity. But when we, and when we look at the opportunity like that, we create a version of ourselves that never would have had the opportunity to be created had that not happened. And I will tell you, we have had so many people. move into stage four and stage five, if I tell you how many new businesses are birthed, having nothing to do with what they were doing, but for two reasons. One is they're like, if I can go through that, I can go through anything. And they have access to ideas they didn't have before. When you're stuck in stage three, it's only stage three thinking, stage three moves. Stage four. Stage four thinking, stage four moves, stage five, stage five thinking, stage five moves. So as you move through the stages, you have access to ideas, thoughts, beliefs, behaviors, people you didn't have access to before.

And I speak so fast. I know I'm giving you so much. I was keeping up.

Physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

Because they're not healed, they're hardened. Yeah. That's what's happening. And here, these amazing people have these gigantic hearts and beautiful souls, but they don't know their value. They don't know their worth. So they're trying to prove their value and their worth in what they're doing. Yes. Who they're.

Exactly. Exactly. So if that's where the identity is, they're not working those other parts of them that need the healing. So this is, I wrote a whole book on being hardened versus healed. And that's exactly it because you're creating a whole life around protection. That's all it is. It's just, I'm going to just keep this going because I can't risk. the change and the shakeup that will be created. But that change and shakeup, yes, it's terrible. Not going to lie. And that's exactly what the caterpillar has to go through to become the butterfly. Right. But if we're only willing to be the caterpillar, you know, you only live in the caterpillar life. But if willing to just get all mushed up and everything that goes on in there, it is scary. It is uncomfortable. You get to be the butterfly.

Well, here's, here's when, if your validation, it's an internal job. Healing is an internal job. When the only thing that heals you comes from the outside, that is a recipe for trouble. Because what happens, what happens when you don't get that? But when you do the internal work and you realize your value and your worth, and that's why I have never seen anyone stronger. than someone in stage five. Because think about it. This was the person or these were the people you trusted the most. And this was the person or these were the people who turned on you, who betrayed you, the ones who gave you a sense of safety and security are the very ones to take it away. So when you can really heal and rebuild yourself from something like that, there's no one stronger. And I'll tell you, having done this myself. And you know, when you put yourself out there, I mean, I've done TED Talks, I've done, you know, books and all this, I'm on stages. And this is the most gossiped about topic, right? And when you realize, okay, you know what? Anybody who's saying those negative things, they're stuck in their own story. I get it. I get it. And it's just, it's coming from a very rebuilt, different place. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. It's rough out there. And I'll tell you, just to close the loop on my story, and this is why I get a lot of feedback, rebuilding is always a choice. Whether you rebuild yourself and move along, that's what I did with my family. They were deeply stuck in stage three. There was nowhere to go. So that was it. Or if the situation lends itself, if you're willing, if you want to, you rebuild something. From the ground up new, starting over with the person who hurt you. And that's what I did with my husband not long ago is to completely transform people. We married each other again. New rings, new vows, new dress, and our four kids is our bridal party. That's why I started National Forgiveness Day. Because there is tremendous possibility, not that you have to do anything with it, but as much as... The betrayed can transform. We have a program for the betrayer too. I see it every day. The betrayer, if they're willing, if they want to, they can truly become someone they're proud of.

Yeah, well, we certify all kinds of coaches and healers so they can move people through the five stages. We have programs for the betrayed. We have programs for the betrayer. Very often we'll have a couple go through it and it's their own individual programs, but the betrayer gets to stage five. The betrayer learns what created that mess of circumstances for them and how did they become someone they're proud of and how can they show up? in the way the betrayed needs and they meet up as two very different people. Everything is at the PBT, as in post-betrayal transformation, thepbtinstitute. com.

Yeah, the books are all on the website. And the newest one is actually for companies, the Betrayal Recovery Roadmap, because so many companies are losing such great people because they're stuck. They're stuck. And this is how to get your whole team and your employees and everybody back on track.

You know, I have to say I always go to this was the book that it's kind of spiritual. So for those, I hope I'm not offending anybody, but it was the book that actually flipped all my thinking on its head. And it was Conversations with God by Neil Donald Walsh.

That was the first thing that ever made sense to me.

I listened to it for over 15 years. Just amazing.