EP250: How Hyper-Targeted Marking Can Change The Game: Insights From Daniel Dixon

Thanks, Brad. I appreciate you having me on.

Yeah. So I'm the CEO of SendGym. I've been in the home service industry for a long time now. I had a carpet cleaning business, started one, sold it, still have a concrete coatings company. But my real full-time job is the leader of SendGym. We're an automated, hyper-targeted marketing company, and we focus exclusively in the home service space. And yeah, I absolutely love and have a passion for home service contracting.

I do. My brother and I own that. It's in Nashville, Tennessee. We're one of the biggest coders here in Nashville. Yeah, we've been doing that for going on six years now.

Yep. Yep. Epoxy. I'm polyspartic, but that's, we don't do any like concrete overlays or, or getting anything else. We just right down the middle, one thing we're really good at and that's all we do.

We had a carpet cleaning company. When I first got into the home service space, it's kind of my parents, when I grew up, owned a carpet cleaning business. And so I knew I wanted to get out of corporate America. I went to school, got my MBA, got an engineering degree. And I'm like, man, I just kept getting drawn back to small business. And so I was like, how can I start a business on the side while I still got my full-time job? So I started my carpet cleaning business, hoping to grow that enough to get out of corporate America. So that was the first thing I did. We had that for about seven years before we sold that.

Yeah, absolutely. So, In the world of marketing or generating leads, it's really difficult when you first start. And even when you get bigger too, it's a difficult thing to figure out. And when you talk about targeted, for people that aren't familiar with what is targeted marketing, or it sounds like a fancy word, it just means marketing to the right people. Right. So you wouldn't want to fish in the entire ocean. You hire like a fishing guide to take you to like the right spots where, you know, the fish live. And marketing is very similar. We kind of use the analogy of fishing in the right part of the lake or the right pond. If you try to get everybody in the city, even of Nashville, to know about you. Right. That can be very expensive. There's millions of people here and there's all kinds of research that says it takes. five to seven times for someone to see your brand before they understand you and trust you and potentially hire you. And so I don't have enough money to get everybody in Nashville to see me. So what does targeted mean? It's getting that the area we're fishing in even smaller to where we are marketing just to people that are the most likely to buy our service. Not everyone in our market, but maybe it's particular neighborhoods or people with particular incomes or typical, you know, the right size home, the right age home, those types of things become very, very important to make sure that you're getting a good return on investment with the dollars you're spending in marketing.

Absolutely. You're 100% correct there, right? When you first start your business, finding the next lead is the only important thing. And you're willing to take just about anything, right? My brother and I started our concrete coatings business together. And he was more on the operation side. I was more on the sales side. And it was like the only real... I wouldn't say arguments, but disagreements we had at the beginning was like, I'm just trying to sell jobs. And like, they would always be pissed about the jobs I'd sell. Right. I'm like, well, we can't, we can't be picky here. Like we're trying to get anything, but to your point, like we don't, we got smart. And as you grow, you can be a little bit more choosy. And so it's really important when you're starting to get any lead you can get. And I even think when you're starting, it's even more important to be targeted with your marketing. So when I started my carpet cleaning business, we started in one neighborhood. Now it was a large neighborhood, I had like 2000 homes, but we didn't market anywhere outside that neighborhood. Again, it comes back to like, I wanted everyone in that neighborhood to know who I was. I wanted to get on their Facebook page, their next door page. I wanted them to see me and see me a lot. Like I was, you know, a big company. And I even had people say like, what do you have? Like, you know, two or three trucks in here. You know, I was like, I only have one, but you always see it. So you think I have a lot of, a lot of. trucks or I'm a lot bigger than I am. But yeah, really just getting super, super focused on the area that you want to do business and getting, cause you don't, when you start, you don't have that much money. So how do we make that money go, go further and really only hit the people that you want to do work with?

Yeah, that's a really interesting point, too, is when you only want to work in a very specific area, it's hard to reach that area, right? People ask, well, how did you just hit one area? How did you only hit that neighborhood? And the first thing you want to do, like when you start a business or the natural instinct is like, oh, I got to be on Google. I got to be on Facebook. I got to have the best website. And all of those things are very untargeted marketing. They're going way out, right? They're going to the, like, I would get Google leads in like an hour and 20 minutes away for like $150 job. And I'd be like, that doesn't even make sense. And you paid for the lead, right? And so it's difficult to target those enough when you're really small. And so targeting becomes even more important when you first start. So with digital, you can't control that as much. But with things like postcards, you can really get targeted. So like I'll use Syngin, for example, but I'll give some other ways for people to be really targeted is with Syngin, you can go in and say, I only want to, you can trace like the neighborhood on our... on our tool. And you can say, I only want to hit people in this neighborhood that make a certain amount of money that own their home, that, you know, have a home of this age that all these different filters. And you can say, I only want to hit people in this neighborhood that meet all those things with these postcards. And I'm going to hit them every other month for the next year, right? I'm going to send them six postcards. And that is really targeted because no one's going to call you outside that area. You're only marketing to where you want. Other ways you can amplify this is do door hangers in the neighborhood, do yard signs in that neighborhood. I used to do, and it's a little bit harder with contracting if you're a big average ticket or a big job company, but if you can do smaller things for people for free or at the end of a job in the neighborhood, if you say, hey, if I knocked off $250, would you give me an honest review on your next door page in this neighborhood or your Facebook page in this neighborhood? And then in that neighborhood, This is before I would even do Google ads or Facebook. Like you're getting so targeted and all those people that you really want to work with five minutes from your home, like you're not spending time driving around the city, wasting money. Like you're really focused on where you, where you want to do the work and who you want to work for.

as entrepreneurs, the ideas that seem genius at the time, like five years later, they're like, man, that was dumb. Like, you know, there's so many of those that I have.

Yes,100%. That's a really good way to put that. Another thing that we focus on at Syngym that can be really helpful too is like people like, well, I don't have a lot of money to market. a feature called neighbor mailing. And what that does is it can connect to your CRM, like the one you've built, Hammer Time. Is that the name of it? Is that correct? Hammer CRM. Yeah, Hammer CRM. And it allows you to automatically send the neighbors of your customer postcards. So in Hammer CRM, when you complete a job, we're going to automatically initiate the postcard sequence. And maybe it's six postcards over the course of a year. to the neighbors of that customer. And our CRM will pick the number of neighbors that you want. So let's say like, I want to send it to the 10 closest neighbors and I'm going to send it six times throughout the year. And all this just happens in the background as soon as you say that that job is done or scheduled or however you want it to work. But the beauty of that is that a couple of things. One is the neighbors of your customer are the most likely statistically to be a buyer of your service. Right. They have a similar income. Typically, they have a similar age home. Their home has similar design or, you know, types of issues. So I live in a neighborhood. My home is like 15 years old. My neighbors are all starting to do kitchen remodels. We've all seen them do the HVAC replacement. So the homes all are dealing with like the same type of stuff. And so we want to if you. Instead of the old way of doing it was like the spray and pray. And it was, hey, we have a shotgun and we've got to blast out as much media as we can. Let's send out a postcard. If you're familiar with like some of the other big companies, I won't say their names, but they'll go out and send like, you can buy a zone or a zip code and you can send out a hundred thousand cards. And it's like, well, I don't need a hundred thousand cards because statistically like 1% of those people might actually need my service. I'd rather send 50 cards to people that, you know,50% of them are going to need my service. And so it's a much more cost effective way to do it. And the other, the other really nice part of this is that that postcard marketing sequence doesn't get initiated unless you're doing a job. So if you're like a seasonal business, like you were with handyman, like when I'm busy and I've got money flowing in my business, like I'm initiating postcards all the time, but in the slow season, when I don't have work. I don't have this big marketing spin because it's all relative to how many jobs I complete, which is initiating more marketing. It's kind of like a flywheel, right? So it's like as it gets spinning, like it just builds, builds, builds. And so that's really effective for people on like a lower budget that are trying to get more targeted with their marketing.

Great question, right? So I don't know if people are, your audience is familiar with digital ads and kind of, but I'll explain this. So like you can go out and you can run a digital ad on Facebook to, you could boost a post, right? And you could pay and Facebook's going to show that post to whoever it wants. And then you can get more niched down and you could say, I want to only show this post to this lookalike audience. So you can upload your customer list to Facebook and you can say, I want to market to these people or people that look just like this, have the similar, you know, interest, et cetera. And Facebook will choose those people and show it to those people. And that's more targeted. You're going to get a better return on investment because it's using your information to. decide who I should send this ad to. Now you can take it a step further into something called retargeting. And if you guys aren't doing this, I don't offer retargeting. It's not a pitch for my service, but you should, everyone should be retargeting. And what that is, is people that are going to your website or have clicked on, you know, one of your pieces of advertising. Once they do that and they get there, they're kind of saying like, oh, I'm like kind of interested. They're kind of raising their hand, but they don't fill out the form. There's something called a pixel you can put on your website and it'll follow them and it'll start getting ad after ad after ad. You've probably noticed this as a consumer. If you clicked on an ad on Facebook or wherever, you're going to get a ton of ads like that or those same company again and again and again. That's going to give you the best ROI. So when people to tie this back to postcards and people say like, oh, postcards don't work or Facebook marketing doesn't work. That's not really true. It's more of like everything works, right? Otherwise people wouldn't do it, but they're not, you're not doing it in a way that's generating a return on investment for you. You're not being targeted enough. And. You can get a really good ROI and a really good conversion rate. Maybe you'll get a 10% conversion rate on postcards if you send it to past customers, right? Like, and advertise like, Hey, we do this in my concrete coatings company. It's kind of like one of our secrets. When I first started the business in the winter times, the first like three years, we lost money in the winter. Right. Because I'm trying to keep my employees. No one's buying that service. They don't want to empty their garage. It's freezing outside. The holidays are here. They spend all their money on Christmas. Like people are traveling like it's so hard to book work. So we started saying like, oh, well, what if we advertise the discount to our existing customer base instead of trying to get new customers? And and what if we did that in the wintertime? And it worked really well. And then we kind of took it a step further. We said, well, anyone during the busy season that says like they're price sensitive, right? Like, oh, it's too expensive. Like, well, actually, if you do this job in December, like we'll cut another $300 off or whatever it makes sense for your business. But once we figured that out, we started making money in the winter. And then it made the whole year like wildly more profitable. So sorry, I'm rambling because I get super passionate about this. But it goes back to your point of like. Postcards can have a good ROI. Facebook can have a good ROI. All these different sources can have a really good ROI. There's businesses that crush it with everything, right? There's a business that crushes it with Facebook, Instagram, with postcards. There's people out there. They found a way to get targeted enough to have success.

Yes. Everything you said is spot on. And I'll say two things. One is the industry matters, right? So it can be difficult for a very low ticket business to get a return on postcards because the postcard costs the same whether your job that you're selling is $200 or whether the job you're selling is $20,000, right? The post office still charges for the postage and we still have to print the card. Digital is a little different. So digital, like... Everyone's fighting for the same lead. It's kind of like an auction style, right? And if you're on Google and you're trying to sell a roofing job, that lead might cost you $500, whereas they'll charge a window cleaner $20. And so postcards are really good. By the way, the higher the average ticket, the better a postcard works. So if you're in a remodel business and your average remodels... $15,000 or $30,000, postcards are fantastic because it doesn't take that many wins to pay for the whole thing, right? But if you're in remodel and you're paying $200, $500 per lead and you only close one out of 10, it's getting really expensive. So just a little thing there that the average ticket does matter, especially with a fixed card like a postcard. a fixed cost, like a postcard. And then the other thing you do have to be smart. Everything does, does work, right? You just have to, you haven't figured it out. I've tried email marketing for Sinjim, right? And it's like, I gave it three months. I didn't, it didn't, I said it didn't work. Even though the reality is, is like, I hadn't unlocked it yet. I don't, I haven't figured out the secret. I haven't, you know, figured out what worked for Sinjim. We've tried YouTube ads, like all those things. And you're right. You can't really say it doesn't work. I just, I haven't figured it out yet.

The other thing too with marketing is having realistic expectations to your point of like, I have $1,000 a month or I hear people come to us because they want to send postcards and I have to caution them, right? And help them set expectations that SendGym isn't going to replace, postcards aren't going to replace all your leads. Facebook isn't the answer. Google isn't the answer. The answer is to do all of them. or to do all the ones that make you money. But it isn't like, well, I'm not happy with like my Google. So I'm going to switch to Facebook or I'm not happy with like, I hear so many business owners doing that. And it's like, it's going to be very difficult to get one lead source that provides enough leads for any sizable business. And so what you have to do is find out for the money I spend, you find the best lead source and you spend as much as you can there. until it starts not producing the, like a good ROI. So, and then, but you don't cut that after it starts not producing an ROI. You kind of scale back the spending to where the ROI is good. And then you find the next like channel. So then you're like, okay, Google's great. Like now I'm going to go. figure out Facebook. And then I figure out that channel. And then now I'm going to add postcards on top of that. So don't come to, you know, your marketing agency or Sinjim or whatnot and think like, I'm going to throw away everything else. And this is going to be my answer. Like none of them are the answer, right? It's like, but it's all of them being smart and kind of doing everything is, is really the answer. And to your point, it's expensive.

Yeah. And like you can start with one, right? Like figure out one and do it really well. And then, you know, I think Alex Hermose is big on this. I love his content is like, Hey, figure out one and just go as hard as you can at that one until that one's out of gas. And we do that. Like with my concrete codings company, I can't spend any more on Google. I always ask my marketing agency, can I spend more? Can I spend? Nope. You're maxed out unless you want to get more zip codes. And so then I'm like, okay, well, let's figure out Facebook. And then I figured out mail. And then it's just like all those things keep adding. And now it's like, I'm figuring out how to partner with, you know, other people. And so don't, don't give up because a source only gives you three leads or five leads a month, or don't give up because, you know, the ROI isn't fantastic. It's if you can make money on it, do that. figure out the next thing or keep those three leads and find out another source that'll give you five leads and another source that'll give you six leads. It's like referral network, right? Like I work with builders. This builder gives me four jobs a month. Well, it's like, well, that's not enough to keep my schedule busy. So do I abandon that? No, absolutely not. Like I keep doing that, but I got to do another one too. If you're spending a little bit on neighbor mailing, like you will get a good ROI, but also don't expect it to like be, you know, answer your prayers and bring all the jobs that you ever needed.

Yeah, that's a really good question. So one of the biggest challenges with our company, if I'm just really honest, is people say, you know, the biggest reason people cancel to say, oh, I didn't get any results. And we did a big study on this and we found that what happens is people will receive the piece of mail and it can have a tracking number from, you know, from us. It can have a QR code that we can see if someone scans. We can do these types of things, have a unique offer on there so people have to ask. And we know the business knows it was from the postcard. But what happens is there's a small percentage that will see the card and call you. And they'll use the tracking number or they'll click the QR code and go to the website. But then there's another percentage of those, a small percentage of those people that go to the website, but they don't take action. Younger people don't like to make phone calls. They don't like to... They're busy. They want to do everything online. So they won't call. So they'll go to the website and they'll fill out a form. Now on the form, oftentimes you can select where you heard about it. It's not always accurate. But some people will say mail. Some people will go there and then they stop there. Right? And they don't fill out anything. It's like, ah, yeah, I'm kind of thinking about it. And then they'll get retargeted with their digital ads. And then they'll say, oh, I... sign up on, you know, Facebook or whatever. So there's a bunch of different ways that people can come in, but mail is creating like your audience. And then they'll come in from the mail piece or they'll come in on your website or they'll come in on your GMB listing or they'll come in via Google or Facebook. But really mail kind of like made them aware of you and drove them to your audience. And so we took like some customers data and we looked at, okay, this is where all the customers say they came from. They came from Google or Facebook or my friend or referral or whatever. And we looked back and we said, did we mail up that person a postcard before they did any of this other stuff? And it was super fascinating how many of them we had sent postcards to, but then they would say, oh, I filled you out. Like they got the, we can see when the postcard gets delivered. So we would see like, On January 7th, they received a postcard. And then on the 8th, they filled out a form on the website and they'd say like, oh, I heard you on Google, right? And so I heard you on the radio or something. And so what we did is we built an ROI dashboard. And we have a process. If you're one of our customers, we can essentially tell you, hey, you spent this much money with us. You provide us like we can see, take your leads and we can see of the leads that you got, what percentage of those received. or what ones of those received a postcard, you know, in a timing that makes sense that the postcard influenced their buying decision. And then we help, you know, produce an RL, like this is how much revenue those people generated, you know, your close rate, your cost per lead. So we'll provide those metrics for people. And this is brand new. So if you're like, I'm a Syngin user, I have no idea what he's talking about. Reach out because we'll help you with that now. It's kind of like a little known secret. We haven't announced it like, you know, publicly, but we're. We're working on this because we truly believe that postcards are effective. But some of our customers, we have to kind of show the data to show that.

We actually, it's funny you mentioned that we just partnered with NiceJob like in a formal way. So NiceJob is now included in your SynGym membership. And so because we believe that reviews are such an important part of marketing, anyone that goes to buy something now, like most people, they're looking at reviews, right? Anytime I'm choosing a company, I'm looking at their Google reviews. And that's a really big buying factor. And so what Syngim is working on is being able to... leverage those reviews in your marketing in an automatic way. But you're 100% right. Like you're a small business, you're doing a million things. The last thing you're going to do, even if it makes all the sense in the world is, oh, let me go hang door hangers or let me go, you know, print EDD and postcards and take them to the post office or let me go like it just doesn't happen, right? Like it's never the hottest fire or the biggest emergency of the day. And so we try to automate that. And by the way, if you're out there trying to run your own digital ads, et cetera, you probably need to hire somebody too because you don't have time to do it and they're going to do it better than you. The other thing too, Brad, that like when we talk about really targeted marketing is to your point of like the automation is the beautiful part with like Hammer CRM, right? Like the automation is what saves you time, allows you to scale, allows you to get bigger, allows you to get more efficient. And things like marketing, people don't think it is marketing, but we spend marketing dollars like in my concrete codings company. Every time a quote goes out with the CRM, it can automatically send a handwritten card to that person. So let's pretend you just did a remodel estimate, right? Like $50,000 and other companies, you know, $40,000 and other companies, $60,000. Like, well, why are they going to choose you? You know, people like to say like, well, we're the most professional, we're the best, but like homeowners don't really know that. And so what about like a $4 handwritten card, like literally written with a ballpoint pen that automatically goes to them and says like, hey, Mrs. Smith, thanks so much for the opportunity to give you a quote the other day. If you have any questions at all, you know, here's my personal phone number. I would love to earn your business, you know, by choosing us, you're going to choose a veteran owned business or whatever it is. That type of like, customer experience is provided with your marketing budget. And what we found in my concrete coatings company is we closed 10% more of the quotes. And that is a massive return on investment for us. So doing things like that through Hammer CRM and automating that with Syngin and automating your reviews with NiceJob, you should be automating your marketing and really everything you can in your business.

It's crazy you said that. It's not that long ago at my nice job account. And my first touch was like. was the most tied with the last one. So it's like a lot of people responded to the first one to leave me a review. And then it was like, nobody, nobody, nobody. And then a lot of people responded to the last one. And we've experienced the same thing. So we've run promotions inside of Syngym and they're like a one week thing. We just did a Black Friday sale. And we, the very first day and the last day are the best. And typically the last day even outpouring. outperforms the first day. So that's a really good, good point and observation.

Yeah. It, uh, there's two different types of marketing. There's disruptive marketing and there is intent based marketing. And, Intent-based marketing is the kind of like the conversion. A lot of people think about it as like the customer already knows they want it and they have an intent to buy it. So if your backpack broke and you're like, I need a backpack and you're going on Google and you're like looking best travel backpack, right? Like that person has intent to buy. But if you are disruptive marketing and you're scrolling on Facebook and you're like, if, you know, Facebook probably heard you say like, oh, we're going on a trip or whatever, or they saw you bought plane tickets, right? And they're like, well, maybe Brad is interested in a travel backpack. And so they just start serving you these ideas or disrupting your scrolling. And they're saying like, they're putting this planting the seed in your head that like, well, maybe I should have a travel backpack, right? But it takes time to water that seed for you to be like, yeah, well, maybe I do. Oh, that's cool. Let me click on it. I don't need that now. And then it's like, but over six months, they're working on you. And then you're like, okay, I need it. And direct mail is a lot of that, right? When you go to send a postcard to the neighbor of the customer you just did, they're probably like, oh, you know, what's the neighbor doing? Oh, it looks like they did a remodel. oh yeah, I'm interested in doing that too soon. But it's going to take time. It's not like, oh yeah, like the person that received the postcard, the chance that they have intent to buy that thing right now is low. But over time, if you stay in front of them, work on them, you can build that intent. You can plant the seed and you can pick the fruit at the end. But yeah, all too often you see people like plant the seed, water it, a sprout grows, and then they leave another company to come pick up the fruit, right? Uh, but like Google is totally different. Like that's the best if you can get people on the intent part, but there's a, there's a big cost with that. Like everyone knows those are the leads that are hot.

Yes. Yeah. You're planting that seed. That brings up another really good point is like, when you look at, if you have a customer base and you're not marketing to them, you should start today. Like that, I feel more strongly about that than anything, because to your point, like you, You probably had a ton of gutter cleaning clients in your business and they don't, if you don't do a good job of marketing to them or talking to them. And let me tell you one thing, if, if you're the owner out there doing it, like that's one thing, but if you have employees, I guarantee you, they're not talking to them about the other services or opportunities. You could tell them to upsell all day long, but I just know for sure it's not happening 100% of the time. So you can go out there and you can say, you know, like, hey, did you also know we offer this, right? They already know, like, and trust you. So the easiest people to sell to are the people that already know, like, and trust you. They've already used you. You did a good job at one thing. So it's like, hey, do you also do this? Hey, I didn't know. you know, did you do that? And so we got to tell those people what we do. I have a really quick and funny story about this. When we had our carpet cleaning business, we showed up to a job and there was another carpet cleaner there. And I'm like, oh crap, they probably hired, you know, two people or some kind of scheduling thing got messed up. Well, we come up and we like, oh, you know, the homeowner were like, we're here to clean the carpet. She's like, okay, great. And we're like, there's another person here. Like she had. Wasn't didn't see any issue with it. And she's like, oh, they're here to clean the furniture. And I'm like, oh, my God, like we clean furniture, too. Right. Like, why did you hire somebody else? It's like, well, I didn't know you clean furniture. And we just think like these people know and they'll call us when they need us. But we need to tell them, like, if you you should be marketing your own services to your customers.

Yeah. I love that. That's a fantastic idea. The other way to do this, which is not as good as your way, because you can get there and do it all at the same time. But we have a lot. It's pretty popular for customers to say like, OK, we're going to enter when a job's completed. I'm going to enter the customer into like a thank you follow up sequence. So we'll thank them on the first thing with like a voicemail or a text message. And then what we'll do is like a month from now, say, did you know that we also do this? And then, you know, two months from now, there's a postcard that says, you know, features you in a different service. And so it might take over a course of five months or whatnot to kind of one postcard on each of your services. And that's a really popular way to stay in front of the customer with your brand, but also kind of make them aware of other things.

Yeah. It all depends on the size of the card that you want to send. But you could probably in like in your head, think of like anywhere from let's call it 75 cents to a, you know, a dollar 20, depending on how big of a card, you know, do you want one of those big ones that takes up the whole mailbox or like, are you fine with a little one? And then it's just per card. So if you said, hey, I'm going to hit the 10 closest homes, you know, let's say that's $10 or $7.50. And then, you know, I want to hit them 10 times. So that's 10 to the, or let's say five times to the 10 closest homes. So that's $10 times, you know, five. So 50 bucks over the course of a year. And so like that could get you into the 10 closest homes, hyper, hyper targeted. you know, most of our clients would say, depending on the service you're offering, if you're doing remodels, right, like $50 on the, you know, I'm only spending $50 if I complete a job and my average job's 10 grand. Like, it's a no brainer. Like, I can just add $50 onto every quote.

Yeah. The other thing too, like kind of a trick is that when you schedule a job, right? Like you could go. And no contractors do this, but you can go next door to the couple homes next door. Like we remodeled our kitchen recently and there's so many trucks out there, right? For like a month. And it's parking in front of the neighbor's houses and things like that. Like the contractor could simply go to the neighbors and say, Hey, I just want to introduce myself to you. I'm Daniel. You know, we're doing a project for your neighbor. We're doing their kitchen. Sorry for all the vehicles. just let me know if we're ever in your way or we, you know, if you need us to move or, you know, I'm happy to help. And then you've introduced yourself. There's not even a sales call, but the customer is like, wow, that's a super professional contractor. Oh, they do kitchen remodels. So you already got those two points in. Right. And then when you finish the job or you schedule the job and you initiate this neighbor mailing with automation, then it's like. oh, they're offering a thousand dollars off a new kitchen right now. Or like they're offering free countertops with the kitchen. And then it's like, if they're even interested, like I guarantee you, you're going to be one that's giving them a quote. Like at least. Yeah, that's so good.

Yeah. And then just stay in front of them after that.

If you're interested, we'd love to talk to you. You can sign up for a free demo at SendGem. com. That's S-E-N. D J I M. com. We'd love to, to help you. We're passionate about home service companies and we have a lot of them. And even if you get on and just use us for a quick thought and strategy time, we'd love to meet you.

Ooh, one that I am currently reading is not a business book per se, but I think it's called You Can't Break Me by David Goggins. You Can't Hurt Me, Navy SEAL, super motivating. Yeah, crazy, right? It makes me feel like when I feel sorry for myself, oh, this is hard, business is hard, like that'll make you feel real soft. So you can go out there and read that. And actually, if I move here, like you can see a stack of all my business books. But that's a really good one. Traction EOS is a really good one, too.

Yeah. Yeah. If you if you want an easy read with some motivational. tone to it and that's a good pick if you

oh really that's

oh nice what's the name of your book it's uh

all right i love it does it have like tabs and stuff too

I was like, if that thing comes with tabs, like I got it.

It's just unique, right? Like you're like, oh, dang, like this thing's a manual.

I don't know. I don't know anything about that, but it looks cool. And I would have been like, that's the one I need right there. That's the manual.

Yeah, thank you, Brad. I really appreciate you having me. It was fun. Awesome.