EP252: Understanding The Five Money Personalities with Leanne Ozane

Thank you for having me. Pleasure to be here.

I'm Leanne, and my business works directly with service-based businesses, helping them be more profitable with financial strategies that actually work and that don't include memorizing and figuring out QuickBooks. I would consider myself a financial coach for small businesses, but I really love just the work of shoulder to shoulder with a business owner, figuring out why are we making so much money and where did it all go? And so that's a profitability paradox that my practice and I help people work through.

No, I'm a financial planner and I have been doing business coaching directly for about 16 years with all different shapes and sizes of businesses.

Happy to do that. So quick story. I started to notice, this was about five years ago, I started to notice. that I had the same kind of problems coming through the door of my office. And it felt like I was getting the same questions and the questions were ever a bit as complex as they've ever been, but it was about the same patterns. And so I started to really observe that my clients had these, I call them money personalities, but they're patterns. They're not an identity. And there's both strengths and weaknesses to leverage. And what I started to notice with my actual clients is they have these patterns running in their brain. It's psychology, but it's actually a deeply held belief. I think that psychology is programming and that belief actually comes from that programming and we act on that belief. And so I started to just observe that business owners coming to work with me had a deeply rooted set of beliefs around the subject of money. And that deeply rooted set of beliefs. were creating a series of actions that were creating a series of results that resulted in empty bank accounts, no matter how much they doubled or tripled sales. And so to kind of answer your question, I have about five of these instincts that I can go through. And we can, of course, you know, spitball and talk about them in more detail. Now, I know your audience is primarily contractors and... people in the trades. So I, of course, will be able to say, when I worked with people in the trades, these tend to be more of the psychological traps that they're in. But... All of them apply to all of us in some way, shape or form. And I'd be happy to just dive in and kind of cover all five, if you'd like.

start. Let me tell you this. When somebody comes to work with me, the first question I ask them is, What did you learn about money growing up? What was taught to you directly and what was caught? And I learned to ask that question just on the point that you're talking about, like, why is it that specific types of industries and peoples have these typical reactions or belief systems and where do they come from? And so to just begin to like unpack the trades themselves, what I've observed. is that when people in the trades come to work with me, they tell me that they were taught that they needed to get out there, picking mostly on men, right? Because it's stereotypical men, that they need to be like good providers and they need to have a good job. And then society, especially since the 90s, has really pukkooed the trades and it's been all about college education being on this track. And so there's been this kind of pocket of human beings. that have entered either the business or the workforce that have conflicting beliefs, both societally and from what they caught from their family or were taught. And I think that that deeply rooted belief is really present in people who work in the trades and it affects what they believe about themselves, what they believe their business can accomplish, who they are, what their potential is, and all of that impacts their profitability. So I think we're onto the same thing here.

There's five. Okay. Yep.

Let's go through them. Okay. So, okay. I'm going to talk about my favorite one first, because I like to put my hand over my heart when I talk about them, because this person is the, has the instinct or the pattern that I call the hero. Okay. And this is strong with men, very strong with men. The hero just tends to give discounts to everybody that has a sob story. I can think of an electrician I worked with a few years ago who was always being pulled into a little lady's house from church to fix something in her home and was spending so much of his time doing ministry work that he didn't have time to do his business work. So this hero has the best heart. And they will give these discounts. They can't say no to free work for families and friends. And they really prioritize being liked over being paid fairly. This is a real thing. And what they tend to do is they blur the line because they don't see the line themselves between their business and their personal finances, especially when their loved ones or somebody is in need of help. And so that tends to, the hero tends to feel guilty saying no to financial requests from anybody. And what we see with that hero's behavior and their patterns, when I look at them and I look at their money, I can tell that they've got the hero pattern when they are making very quick financial decisions based off of emotion. Yes, even dudes have emotion, right? So quick decisions based off of emotion. And they are really, truly willing to sacrifice business growth in order to provide immediate relief to somebody. And it's about them. It's about who they want to represent or who they want to be. And so one of the things I love about the heroes out there is they are incredibly resourceful. They're incredibly giving. They're loyal men. And they're natural problem solvers. But the problem is that strength of theirs also lends towards their weakness. where they don't have financial boundaries of any kind. And they take risk, they risk their business's stability in order to be that good guy, that loyal, dependable person. And actually they create enablements that enables like something in their business where it turns into a ministry or a nonprofit organization. And that hero is strong, thin. in so many ways, and he doesn't understand why his business isn't thriving, but he's at conflict with himself. And so I love these heroes. They're wonderful. And this is one of the hardest money instincts to actually step away from and correct. What do you think? Where have you seen heroes?

Cool. You want to talk about the hunter?

Okay. The hunters are really fun people to be around. They're some of my favorites. I like them all. But the hunter instinct is super interesting because they grew up probably in America where they were told and taught. There is what they were taught directly by their parents. And then there's what they caught. And one of the things that that hunter catches is that there's just this thing where you have unlimited opportunity with your business and they love the opportunity of their business. They're literally seduced by the word opportunity. And so that hunter is chasing every new opportunity and every new shining object in business. The hunter instinct. likes to start a project, but does not like to finish them. And so in their business, when I look at their finances, I'm like, oh, I can tell you're a hunter because their revenue fluctuates wildly because they're constantly shifting to the next big thing. That is the hunter verbatim, right? They tend to think they're just one big launch or one big contract or next big thing away from all of their financial problems going away. And that Hunter, sorry to say it out loud, but that Hunter really, truly has impressive bank accounts. Excuse me, impressive revenue. They're the person who's like, well, yeah, we did about $3 million last year, right? They'll talk about the top line, how much money they made, but their bank account is empty. They're freaking out about payroll and they have no idea how they're going to pay taxes. They're really, really believing that revenue solves everything. And they really, truly believe that when they finally get the next big opportunity, it's going to be the one that turns everything around. So these hunters, they're awesome. What I love about them is they really believe that they work harder, more money is going to flow. But they tend to be, if I were to say they have a weakness, is they're very top line focused. They're super obsessed about revenue generation. And they make, because of that, they make really impulsive investment decisions. Like, oh yeah, we need to do that because it's going to lead to this. And so there's this constant chasing of revenue, which as you and I both know, revenue is not profit. No. Not the same, right? So their strength and drive and their pursuit of opportunity and their fearless decision-making, all of that's awesome, but they haven't quite learned because of their belief system. They believe that revenue solves everything. They haven't yet made that switch over to understanding that they need to learn how to keep profit and how to be profitable. Where do you see that?

Would that be fair? Absolutely. Okay. And they will, the hunters will take a contract that they're losing money on. Because they believe it is going to be the opportunity or they think any business is better than no business. Yeah. So they tend to chase opportunity and they chase revenue rather than really understanding, actually, I don't want to take that job because I'm going to lose money on it because they haven't quite figured out. And it's really, we're talking about psychology and the instinct, right? The instinct of the hunter is just make more money. Just get the next deal. And that instinct. Honestly, it can keep them broke.

Oh, no. I mean, I think we get to both see it from a different angle there. I don't see it as scarcity. I see it. They aren't really coming from my experience. Sure. I don't think those hunters are coming from a place of scarcity. Okay. They're just really believe, they believe what I call the lie of the land. And the lie of the land is if you just make more money, all your financial problems are going to go away. So it's more about like having more money flowing through their business and less about the fundamentals of profitability. I feel like scarcity mentality is more in our hater, which we'll talk about next. More in our hero. But I don't really see this as much with the hunters, personally.

Yes, absolutely. Okay. And I also think it is coming from an emotional place. It feels good to say, we just got a $2 million contract or we just got a $30,000, whatever the number is. It feels good to do that. It feels like we actually are doing something positive for our business. But I can't tell you how often, Brad, I've sat with people in the trades and I'm like, you know what? We need to not take that. We need to not sign that contract. Let somebody else do the work. I know you want that $30,000 sitting on your income sheet or your income statement, but the cost of revenue is too high. We can't do it, right? So they like the wind of the numbers going up. The hunters do. Okay. That's an emotional win for them, even if it's not profitable.

I'm not trying to undo your work.

Number three is going to be our hoarder. Our hoarder. Oh, the hoarders. They're so sweet. This is actually, honestly, I see this more in women than men. If we have women listening, this tends to fall there, but let's talk about it. So the hoarder holds onto cash obsessively. The hoarder in the trades may be somebody who has either been part of a business that fails or is like, I can think of like a plumbing business I worked with where The dad basically almost filed bankruptcy and the son came in and tried to fix it and took over the business. So he had hoarder instincts. So what happens is the hoarder holds on to cash obsessively. So they're afraid, deeply afraid to spend money on anything that's even a necessary business investment. They will drive the beat up piece of crop truck until the wheels fall off of it because they don't want to make a wrong decision. or they're afraid of money itself. Really, that's the root of it. And they're afraid of failure. So they won't hire people despite being overwhelmed because they don't think they can afford it or they're afraid of the financial risk. So these hoarder types, that instinct that they have is they're checking their bank balance more than they check their email. And the idea of spending money to grow their business literally makes them physically uncomfortable. They are physically affected. And I can tell a hoarder because they will drive across town to save $5 on gas, then invest $500 into their business. So they're, they're deeply, deeply afraid of money being taken away from them. They're deeply, deeply afraid that if they spend that money will never come back. And it's really, really rooted in this thing that they caught either. from life lessons or their parents, that it's better to be safe than sorry.

Number four is the hater. I like these.

Thank you. I've worked really hard to develop ones that actually fit, right? Yeah, no, I love them. Okay. So the hater is, I actually believe it is really, really strong with men in the trades. And I saw on your website that profit is not a dirty word. I think that's what I saw. That's my slogan. The hater doesn't believe that. They don't believe that. They believe deep down, probably from their upbringing, they were probably taught directly that we don't talk about money. That's dirty. Or they saw their parents fighting about money. Or they know that money is like a no-no taboo subject. The hater really believes that money is dirty. And they have a belief, and this is especially true of men, a belief that... I don't want to be an a-hole. I don't want to be that guy. And so I don't want to be greedy and I don't want to overcharge and I don't want to gouge people. And so they really believe that if they charge with their worth, that would make them a bad person. So they tend, especially in the trades, they tend to undercharge for services. They don't mark up what they buy from their suppliers. They feel guilty. They have a guilty complex. about making money. And it's different than we talked about with the first one where we're just like, you know, it's a little, it comes from a different place. And that place is imposter syndrome for sure. And that place really, it came from, I really find it comes from the family of origin where it's like, okay, we just don't talk about money. And so when I have somebody in my office, that's a hater, having a conversation about raising your prices. is one of the most, it's like pulling teeth. They would rather go get a colonoscopy than talk about raising their prices. It's because they think money is a dirty word and they think good people can't concurrently exist with money.

Oh, really? I'm glad it's not just me.

Oh, my word. I'm sorry. I'm right there with you.

I think one of the things that is unique to the trades about haters, it's the quiet thing that almost nobody sees or talks about. And that is over delivery. So if I'm going to charge, if I'm going to charge you $150 an hour, come out and do the thing, they tend to over deliver. To compensate for charging air quotes too much. Yeah. Right. So it's an emotional thing that the hater feels like they have to have for themselves so they can live in their skin and get up and do work the next day. So for your audience, that is the clear sign that somebody is that hater is that they are over delivering on their services in order to justify charging too much.

Yes. And that gets, it actually has more layers to it. It's I'm not worth it. But the next layer below that is nobody will pay it. Yeah. And they're kind of kissing cousins of like, I don't believe that I can. And I, I also concurrently believe no one will. And, uh, it's just amazing to me how, when that gets broken off of somebody. when somebody can really let that go. And honestly, the only way we let that go is through rote practice and just absolute boundaries, setting out a boundary. Can I tell a quick story on myself? Yeah. So years ago, when I was starting my career, I had this wonderful mentor and I'm like fresh out of college, just finished, you know, all of the certifications to do the work that I do. And my mentor says to me, hey, Leanne, how much does that cost to work with you per hour? And I'm like, what? And she's like, how much does it cost to work with you per hour? And I started to sweat. And I'm like, I don't know. And she said to me, aren't you every bit as professional as every attorney in this city? And I said, yes. And so she gave me this homework. And the homework was I had to call around to 15 different law firms and ask how much it costs to work with an attorney in my city. So I did this. So again, this was years and years ago, but I came back to her and I'm like, well, Catherine, it looks like it's about $125 an hour to work with an attorney. And she's like, okay. So what you got to do is you got to get used to saying that. That's your starting, that's the starting place. Start there. And so what I did for a year of my life, it was ridiculous, Brad. For a year of my life, I go to a party or I go somewhere and I'd say, Brad, ask me how much it costs to work with me per hour. And so you'd say, hey, Leanne, how much does it cost to work with you per hour? And then I feel like the bile come up into my throat. And I was like, $125 an hour, right? And I did it so many times that I just got comfortable with it. And so when I'm working with that hater, and I'm going to pick on an electrician I worked with this year, I was like, listen, what you got to do is you got to have a boundary about who gets to have access to you. And you just have to practice saying what it costs. You're going to feel the feels. You're going to be uncomfortable and you're going to do it anyway. And then before you know it, you won't be uncomfortable anymore. So the hater has to practice sharing what it costs to work with them. I've been there.

Yeah. And isn't it, both of our stories are telling, are really, an illustration of really was between our ears. Yeah. Oh yeah. We didn't know how to actually, in some cases, we didn't know how to articulate our value. Yes. And this is why, like when I'm working with somebody, I will tell them, I see your value. And until you believe it, you just have to practice. You just have to say it over and over again. So my advice to your audience would be is if you know you need to raise your prices and you just don't know how, you just have to start somewhere. Just start saying what it costs like we did and watch people sign up to do work with you.

One more. No, we're done. We have the hotshot. Okay. A hotshot. I don't know that I don't know that I see much of the hotshot in the trades, but there is a dude or a woman listening to this podcast who probably has an ego. So the hotshot is nobody likes to tell me that they're a hotshot. It's almost like people hear these five. They're like, I'm not that. I'm like, yes, you are.

ego. I can tell just by looking at your balance sheet, you're a hotshot. So the hotshot spends money to look successful, even if that means they're not profitable or they're barely profitable. So they buy the big truck. They get the big truck wrapped. They have the fancy office. And what they're doing is they are projecting success while they are secretly drowning financially. And this comes from when we talk about what was caught versus what was taught. This comes from a deeply held belief that if I don't have it, if it doesn't look this way, then it can succeed. And so the psychology and the mindset here is if I don't have the big truck, the $90,000 truck, right? And I don't have this and I don't have this, then no one will think I'm a legit business and no one will do business with me. But it also is an ego stroker. It's where somebody actually, a lot of times, I'm sorry to say it, but I'm just going to go there. A lot of times it has to do with guys, maybe in the trades, maybe not, but guys like to buy big things through their business so they can write it off. But it's really just big ticket purchases that they're making and it strokes their ego. Like I got it. I can have it. I deserve it. And even if they don't actually believe they deserve it, they believe the thing that they purchased, that truck or that investment property or whatever. that it's going to stroke their ego and it's going to legitimize them, but it doesn't. Yeah. So these dudes are justifying every purchase with, well, it's a write-off. And now, sorry, I'm just going to let my finances show here, like my financial chop. Just because it's a write-off does not make it a good financial decision. There are broke business owners because they're writing everything off. It never makes sense to try to spend your way out of a tax bill. But our hotshot? really believes that it's a good decision because it's a write-off. And they tend to spend time perfecting their image and their brand more than their profit margin.

That they rented. That they rented.

Yes. Totally. The thing about another thing about the hot shots that I think is a distinction here is they they actually deeply believe that looking successful is successful. And those two things have to cut their two sides of the same coin of like no one will do business with me if I don't have this. But it's that their image, they're confusing their image with actually what is business and the purpose of a business. Yeah. is to be profitable and the purpose of a profitable business, that is what legitimizes a business. And that can lead to the big life and the big everything. But we tend to flip it. And I actually think that a lot of times the hotshot comes from culture. I mean, all we have to do is look around and see how much debt people have compared to their income. All of us know. that Americans are horrible with their money. Our financial literacy is in the toilet. And most business owners didn't like wake up and go, hey, I'm going to start a plumbing company today. They don't do that. They fall into it, right? So they are purposefully a business owner, but they never went to Wharton. They didn't learn to go to business school, right? So then they're figuring out business on the fly, which is where you come in, right? You're teaching them how to run and master a business. And the thing there is that we have this culture that says you can spend money on anything and it's okay. And you get to have this image and the keeping up with the Joneses. And it's just acceptable to be terrible with money and have a big lifestyle. And that does carry into business as an instinctual behavior with it. And the hotshots really struggle with it. And they really believe that tax deductions make things free.

Absolutely. I think you said it best when you said they buy that truck, but the next month when a deal goes south, now they've killed their cash flow. Yeah. You said it best.

It comes out as a way for, for me to help a person that I'm working with go, all right, your programming, your default programming with money is going to take you down this path. And it's got strengths and it's got weaknesses, right? Like there's good and bad to both. But when I'm working with somebody, I am working with somebody for four to six months. And the whole purpose of it is how do we get you to the place where you have profit, like money in the bank profit, not profit on paper, not profit in margin, profit, money in the bank. And the way we do that is through something I call the two number method. So I teach people how to manage their money. using a cell phone, their business, their bank app, and two numbers. You got to know what your two numbers are. And with contractors in particular, sometimes they have three numbers where they actually have to know what is their cost of goods sold for, you know, materials and that kind of thing. So what happens is I teach a business owner how to manage their business from their cash flow. I mean, there's softwares and there's people like you that teach people how to optimize. every bit of their business. I help people put money in the bank and keep it stick. Like, let's be profitable. And the way we do that is through cashflow strategies. And so when somebody knows their two numbers, then I can say, okay, you gotta move that money from here to here. And you actually are using your native behavior, which is when you open up your phone and you click your bank app, your psychology is already asking one question while you're waiting for the numbers to load. Your psychology is saying, how much do I have left to spend? What is this going to look like? Right? And so that is the psychology that I teach people to manage their business finances from. And it works. Like we go from people saying, I don't know what you did to me, Leanne. We have not increased sales. We have not decreased expenses. But I have bank accounts full of money. And the two number method is how we do that.

good question. We need another interview. The two numbers are what is your profitable investment and what is your waste? I know it sounds like nuance. It's not. It's straight up strategy. Profitable investment is dollars that you invest in your business that you know that you know that you know gives you multiple dollars back for every dollar you spent. And when we allocate funds to good investment and we invest that money in the proper timing and the proper place, then you always have the money you need. to invest in your business. And then we get really clear about what the waste is. And we give it a name and we decide what it is and we give it a finite number of dollars. And when we do that, suddenly the cash flow starts to balance itself out. As long as a business owner is thinking of what I call one pot cooking, which is all the dollars are equal, all the expenses are equal in importance, then you are going to be chasing revenue forever and wondering why there's no profit. But when we separate that, we're intentional with those two numbers, that clarity shows up.

Yes, absolutely. Profitable investments make you multiple dollars back for every dollar you spend. A lot of times people tell me, yeah, the guy, my apprentice is a profitable investment. My staff is a profitable investment. Sometimes people tell me, no, my payroll is waste. I can't seem to make money off of it. So I really like to help. Like if I were working with you, Brad, I would say, what do you think is something that makes you multiple dollars back for every dollar you spend? What do you know that you know that you know that you spend money on that makes you money? What's your answer?

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I work with the individual. So we want the two numbers to be whatever they think of. So if I were working with you, I'd say, what are your profitable investments? Because it needs to be what you think it is. Not what Leanne thinks of it. Okay. But it can be capital investments. It can be any number of things. I see people put marketing in waste. Yeah. Where they're like, I can't quantify it. But I also see people put marketing in good investment. But the key here is that the business owner knows that my good investment money is spent like this and my waste money is spent like that. And we have boundaries around the cash and that's why we have profit.

Yes, indeed.

Hire broad people. He's awesome.

We're using the word expense and investment interchangeably. I agree with you. The problem is, is that a business makes itself cash poor all the time by believing that every dollar they spend is going to make them multiple dollars back. And when we get clear that they're not, and we understand what dollars are supposed to do what in a business, not budgeting, but strategic spending, like this money goes here for this. That's where we start to see bank accounts filling up.

Yeah. A lot of times people are asking me, how do I even find the beginnings of my two numbers? How do I do that? And so at gift. profitwithleanne. com, there is a guide. that your audience can download if they want. And it's called the three-step guide to save your business and your marriage when money is threatening both. I go there with people. Let's be real, right? But it will begin to help you start asking these kinds of questions. And if nothing else, it's going to at least take this conversation to the next level and be enormously valuable to your audience.

I am loving reading It's the New Mel Robbins book. Let them.

I'm loving Let Them because I've learned over my career that boundaries are just kind of everything in business. It's also a core tenant of integrity. And I love that she goes there and says, just let people be where they are and hold space for who you are and your boundaries. And I just think it's a good read, even though I couldn't think of a name.

Thank you for having me.