EP17: Are 7 Touches Still Important?

Listen, the seven touches is, it's classic. It's the seven principles of marketing. You know, I mean, the thought process behind the seven touches, for those of you who don't know it, it's like they see your truck, they see a YouTube video, they hear about you from a friend, they run into a business card at the, you know, think about the seven visualizations of someone and it etches into their mind. And then on the seventh touch, that's when you're supposed to get that client. I mean, that's the principles behind seven touches.

Malarkey. Oh gosh. Don't cuss at us like that. This is, this is, that's like explicit kind of shit you're talking about there. I know. Watch your language. This is a family show.

Good. I'm hoping for it. Yeah. I mean, As far as marketing goes, that's why, you know, you're handing out business cards. You have a truck. You have two, three trucks. They share trucks around town. Like, then you get out of the truck and you're wearing a shirt. Like, that's why it's so important as doing the marketing for your company to think about all those different ways you can potentially have that visual touch or, yeah, that visual touch to your clients. Or audio. I mean, think an audio, like podcast is audio, right? So you have to have those different vehicles to connect with people.

So being the direct answer is no. But a lot of marketing that is done, like we're helping contractors track their marketing. So you're taking a phone call. Hey, how did you hear about us? And you're like communicating with the client and they mention, hey, I saw your truck. Hey, I found you on YouTube. Oh, you're on Instagram. You're my favorite. Blah, blah, blah. Like you're asking those things. But in the past, a lot of times, I think it was just, you know, you did the marketing. You didn't really know what was working, right? I mean, that's really the old school contracting or business mind is like you just throw marketing out there and you're not sure what's working. So you just keep throwing mud on the wall. And as long as your sales are... dominate the amount of money you're spending on marketing, it kind of played out. But people are more savvy nowadays where they're tracking and they're being thoughtful about the money they spend. So yes and no to your answer.

Right. Well, to me, that doesn't work. So that doesn't translate. So that would be a no. Okay, I got a phone call, but I didn't get the ROI. So if I don't hit the ROI, it doesn't work. So yeah, it worked, but it didn't.

Well, yeah. So this is funny because I have a contractor buddy of mine, one of my peers that I communicate with. He was on like HomeAdvisor, which we're not officially sponsored by HomeAdvisor yet. So just throwing that out there.

Well, I'm just telling you, hey, never say never, son.

He was with HomeAdvisor. And so he was like. Dude, I've been here for four months. I'm paying 600 a month. He's all upset about it. And then he sells this project for like 80,000. But meanwhile, I'm talking to him, consulting with him, helping him out, doing whatever. And then he's just bitching about HomeAdvisor and the leads and this and that and the other. And then come to find out, he's like, I'm like, how did you get this job anyways? He's like, HomeAdvisor. He's all pissed and shit. I'm like. So you spent $2,500, but you have an $80,000 job. Is this not translating well to you? That kind of translates well to me, but you're complaining. So like, it's all perspective, right? So, but if you only got one job, but he's spending that money every month and he feels like, hey, I thought my phone would be ringing off the hook. So that's still translated well in the ROI if he bit it correctly, right? But I mean, there's an extreme of what you're talking about.

right. I mean, there's a true testimony to that person's not tracking their KPIs and then not... making business decisions based on tracking their key performance indicators, right? So if he's like, hey, I spent $2,500. He writes the check and his girl is probably like, oh my God, this is so much money. We just keep paying it every month. How does it work? But if he's not going, hey, I received this many phone calls and I'm tracking this many leads. I have this much potential and I sold this one project for $80,000. It's okay. You should write that check and smile. instead of being upset about it. And so that would be a scenario of that. But again, that's not back to seven touches. The seven touches is really what I want to talk about.

Right. Well, also, that's the importance. If he's tracking his leads and he knows that the Google pay-per-click gave him X amount of leads and he gave this much in estimates and sold this much in work. When it comes time at the end of the month and he has to write a check for X amount of dollars, he should feel comfortable to say, you know what, I think I'm going to hold off on this. I don't think I'm getting the yield that I want. I've been doing it for this amount of time, which is that's going to translate back to the seven touches in like seven magazine articles or 17 direct mailers or whatever. Right. So he should be able to write that check. And feel really confident, like, hey, I feel comfortable about this. Or, hey, if I don't get the yield that I'm looking for in the next two months, then I'm going to be probably, I'm going to pull the trigger. And he's being thoughtful. He has like, he's making decisions, not just on a whim, not just on his gut. He's actually making decisions based on, you know, the statistics.

like that. That's good. That's really good. Because I think that nowadays, people do their due diligence in social proofing. They're going to check a review, which I know you'll get all happy and giddy about when I say that. They'll go to the person's website and see how it's formatted. They might, if all the social media platforms are up there, they might click on Facebook or Instagram. And so just from that pay-per-click, they might get into five touches right there because they're doing their social proofing, right?

Because he's like, I'm looking for Pond Construction, Southern California. Google touches, Google sends it. Hey, check out this guy. And I paid for that or whatever. So they end up on the website and then they might migrate to the YouTube channel, which is basically a different touch. So they went from the pay-per-click. Now they're watching videos. So now I'm speaking to them in live, like in this, in a format, like I'm, you know, on TV. And they go, oh, that's cool. And I go, hey, check us out on Instagram. And they go, okay. So then they might mention it to the wife. Hey, he's on Instagram and Pinterest. And then he goes to sleep, whatever, goes to work. He hears there's a podcast. So he listens to the podcast on the way to work the next day while his wife is looking on Pinterest. So that's how the touches are starting to move around.

Yeah, but most people do. I mean, most people that are going to look to spend 25 grand,30 grand on a pond, they want to do their due diligence. You're just, you're busy in your business working and you got kids and T-ball and, you know, trying to buy flowers for your wife so she's not mad at you. Like, you got a lot of shit going on. But if you were going to spend 30 grand on a pond, you might go, hmm, I'm going to study this for a minute. Let me just check a couple of things out. Let me do my due diligence.

I will literally punch you in the face right now.

Well, because, you know, we already argued about this before we started the podcast.

No, you're totally wrong. I'm not going to discount the fact that it is very important what you're talking about, but I don't attach a great deal of importance to it. I'm not going to say you don't need it. You don't need it, but I think you're putting too much importance on it.

So I hate to prove you wrong in front of all 10 people that listen to our podcast, but. Please do. Listen, this is the way I look at marketing. Hopefully, no, this is serious. I hope this gives you perspective. Marketing to me is I want to tell people that I'm a pond builder. I got a special this month. You know, I changed people's lives with water, blah, blah, like whatever, how I want to do this, right? And then I put a marketing piece out there, a direct mailer, whatever it's going to be, a Google campaign, a YouTube campaign, whatever it's going to be, I'm going to put it out there. Now, that should make the phone ring. Here's where what you're saying is important, because once they touch my marketing piece, they're going to do their due diligence and they're going to search who I am and what I've done. And let's see how he's performed in the past. And then that second touch could be, hey, let's see how he's performed. Let me check his reviews. But getting people to give you reviews is not marketing. Like that's not a marketing piece. It's a very important touch, but it's not going to like people don't go. I want to get a pond. I'm going to go search reviews and see if I can find a pond builder. Like they use that as a tool to verify whether you're a good dude or not.

But it doesn't go straight to reviews. Yes,

So we're talking like we're talking marketing campaign. So if I do a marketing campaign, the second touch would be review. So you're saying like every person on the planet that wants to get work done, they're going to go to Google and say. My name's Joe, and I want to get a bathroom remodel done. I live in Indiana, Keokuk, Iowa. And then that would be, I could see how it feeds you people and their reviews. But that's not totally how, not everyone is doing that. You're putting, I think, maybe too much importance on that. Now, I agree. You caught me a little bit with my pants like halfway down, but not really.

No, no, no, no. They weren't around my ankles. They were like,

My butt cheeks were showing.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Look, look, YouTube, YouTube is a massive search engine. So you could just put pond construction because I want to know about it. I want to learn about it. I want to find out more about pond construction. And now they're starting to see things. Then they find people. Then they look at them up and they find their website and they end up in their podcast and their Instagram. And then they go, hey, let me review this guy. So not every single touch comes through the Google search engine into reviews and into the phone call. Hey, Brad, Team Handy, come and give me a free estimate.

Pull your pants up right now, Brad.

Put your belt back on.

I don't want to talk about seven touches.

I don't want to talk about seven touches when your pants are hanging that low, bro. Let's talk. Pull them up. And let's talk about seven touches.

I'm going to actually agree with you on that. I'm going to agree with you 100%, hands down. And I got a little story to tell about that, if that's cool with you.

So for years, it's been the six degrees of separation. Are you familiar with that? The six degrees of separation?

Probably. I'm not a huge fan. I'm not a huge fan of Kevin Bacon. but the six degrees of separation is like, it's been this, you know, thing forever where you can think of your favorite person in the world, any person in the world, and you're only six degrees away from actually knowing that person or standing next to them or shaking their hand. And I believe that with social media and the internet and the way things are now, I believe that window was super, super shortened. I mean, it could be two degrees, three degrees of separation. I think six is way out the door. So I would say, I would agree with you. I think seven touches has definitely shortened up.

I'll buy that.

We're not officially sponsored by Yelp yet.

Or you have to go back to old school marketing and go a different route.

Yeah, and ignore that kind of stuff. Your point's well taken. I mean, I am very niche. And I do believe that the more money someone spends, they're going to social proof more and they're going to look more, you know, if you want to get an expensive vehicle, you're going to, you're probably going to look for reviews of it. If it's been returned, if there's been any warranties, if there's any recalls, things like that, you're going to look for things like that. But you're also going to look for, you know, you go to YouTube and see what the videos are like. You're going to see what the accessories might be. You're going to see, you know, what the gas mileage is like, those kinds of things. You're going to, you're going to, you're going to touch a lot of things like that. So I can definitely see smaller ticket items. But I mean, if I'm going to have my house painted, I'm going to do a little social proofing. It's going to cost me 15 to 30 grand, right? I'm going to do some social proofing, look through things. So I guess it kind of, look, this is the reason I told you this topic is so subjective. It depends on the business type, the business model, the years in business, all those things kind of get started. If you just started your business, you don't have that many clients. You're not going to get that many reviews. So you have to lean into like old traditional style, get word of mouth, do some yard signs, do some, you know, make sure your uniforms are correct. Make sure your website's intact. Make sure you have some social media happening. Like those would be the pieces of the puzzle that would be more important than getting the reviews. But then coupling all your hits, all your visits with your clients, it'd be like, hey, it'd be really great if you could give me a review.

That's questionable to me because here's an interesting twist. Because if I have a lot of competitors in town and they're doing a lot of marketing, I can actually get a touch from them. You know, they might have a marketing piece that touches the client and they're like, wow, I really, I think I'd like to get a pond, you know, and then they might call the person and he's a jackass over the phone. That's a second touch to get that waterfall or pond. So like, that's a really interesting twist if you think about it. There is some validity to that. So like they want to get a pawn, they see one at a friend's house, they, you know, all this stuff happens and then they end up at your place. They check a couple of things, they make a phone call, you come and visit them. And that's the, that's another touch. Hopefully it's the final touch when you visit them and you're signing contracts and collecting a check.

Well, that's brand, that's branding.

Branding is what people say about you. And so if your clients are saying good things about you and it's translating into them calling you, it's part of your branding. And that's a different rabbit hole.

i mean The show up is a part of the touch, you know, because you have to communicate with the people correctly and present your presentation, your estimate, and your bid. So there's another touch, right? So is your apparel that you step out of the truck the way you look? Is that a touch? You know, it's like there's all these little nuances. So, I mean, look, if we go back super old school, seven marketing pieces in the mail, the seventh one they're calling. You know, like I remember I used to do magazine ads. And I would basically end up doing a campaign for 12 months because I know for the first seven months, I might get very few phone calls. I might have very little effectiveness. But after seven, eight, nine,10,12 months, people go like, hey, this guy's been around. He's not going anywhere. He keeps showing up. And so that's where it came from. So I think we can agree that seven touches is old school. We're going to agree that seven touches is not necessarily mandatory anymore. And the third most important thing I think we're agreeing on is you need the full package. You need to be able to touch people in 14 different ways, from your trucks to your marketing to the YouTubes to the reviews to your apparel to what branding is, what people are saying about you. All those things really matter. And if you're doing them all really well, it might only take two touches to get to you signing papers and collecting money.

Yeah, we went from punching each other in the face to like hugging. You want to touch me right now, don't you?

No, I like seven touches. It's way better. You want to fight again?

I'm taking this out. You got anything else you want to say? No,

Thank you so much for lending us your attention tonight. It means a lot to us. I hope you're enjoying the podcast as much as we are enjoying recording them. Hit us up the review, subscribe, smash the five stars like you know we always want you to do. And if you're looking forward to tying in with us, communicating more, you can hit us up on Facebook and Instagram. at Hammer and Grind Podcast. And we'll catch you on the next download. Thank you so much.