EP266: From Startup to Success: Chris McManus on Growing a Multimillion-Dollar Landscaping Company

Thanks, Brad. I'm happy to be here, man.

Yes, my name is Chris McManus, located in Western North Carolina, and I run... GC Landscaping, among a few other businesses. 29 years old now, grew up on a farm, and yeah, pretty much been doing this straight out of high school.

It's kind of a longer backstory to that. I grew up racing motocross. I wanted to race it professionally. Kind of got to the point where I was doing that, you know, semi-professionally, traveling all over the country. doesn't pay the bills too well. And, you know, my parents were great. They were very supportive. But, you know, I turned 18 and they're like, hey, you know, you can you can live here. You can save some money. But, you know, we need you to kind of start covering the bills. I'm like, yeah, OK. So needed something flexible. I knew I did not like school at all. Didn't really like listening to people either. hey, you know, I'll mow some grass. I borrowed a lawnmower, borrowed a weed eater. I think I bought like a $400 little trailer and pulled it behind by a motorcycle van and I just started mowing grass while I was racing. And did that for about two-ish years, probably kind of a little side dig, if you will, just enough to pay the bills. And, you know, about that time, I was like, all right, the motocross thing's not going to happen. And the, you know, quote unquote landscaping company was starting to get its, you know, legs underneath it and it was starting to take off. And I was kind of like, well, you know, I'm going to... Just take all this drive and energy I'm putting into this sport that's not working, and I'm going to put it in this business because I don't know what else to do. I don't really have any other skills or passions, I guess. So I'm just going to see what happens, and here we are.

I mean, pretty much. It was low-cost entry. Like I said, I liked working outside. I liked working with my hands. Kind of grew up with an entrepreneurial family a little bit. Like everybody did, you know, grandpa did this and the other grandpa did this and dad did this. Gotcha. It's kind of like, you know, just liked working on stuff and liked the gratification of, you know, striping up the lawn and trimming bushes and all this stuff. So it's just kind of, I don't know, those things just happen in circumstance, you know, like it's just kind of there and we did it and it kind of snowballed from there.

Mine was just, you know, hey, I'm going to be a motorcycle racer. And then, you know, when that finally realization came that, hey, that's not going to happen. Like I said, I just, I didn't know what else to do. I knew I didn't want to go to school and I was already doing this. So I'm like, all right.

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's some. I've been at it for, I don't know,17,18 years. It is since I was a little kid. So I'm sure there's something out there.

Pretty much. I mean, you can kind of get to a certain point without that. And then, yeah, you need to be picked up by a team to be able to pay bills and make a living. And I just, I never got to that point. Honestly, I can remember it like it was yesterday. I was up in Indiana, awesome track. Bike was almost perfect. Brand new gear looked great. Just should have been just a, you know, one of those killer days. And I think second lap, I was exhausted. I'd probably worked 60 hours that week mowing grass and had an 18-hour car ride. And on a third or fourth lap, I'm getting lapped by one of the pros at the time who was like a year younger than me. And it just hit me like a truck. I'm like, I'm done. Like, I just got, I missed it. We're done. And I remember just crying like a baby all the way home, you know,16,18 hours home. Because that was like, dude, that was your whole life. This is what it is, man. I mean, looking back, I'm glad it didn't work out. I think I'm too creepy, frankly, for what that pays. But just wanted a sense. It's like, all right, time to go to work.

I'd probably say the first two years of doing it was just straight flying by the seat of my pants. I knew I wanted to be a big company. I wanted to make a lot of money. You know, I wanted to be known for just communication, good quality, et cetera. And I remember I was mowing grass, but I only had one or two employees. you know, just listening to music all day in your headphones. I'm like, there's got to be something more productive I can be doing, you know, while I'm sitting on a mower. So, you know, found out that, hey, there's this app called Audible and there's all those killer books on it. To start knocking out books left and right. Like, I mean, it was that first year I knocked out like a book a week almost. Like I knocked out 40 or 50 books. And that was just, that really started to open my eyes to, I guess, what's capable for what's out there. So then I started kind of formulating a vision and it's like, all right, I want to get this thing to a $5 million valuation. And then I want to exit it. Like I didn't know people built businesses to sell. So like, all right, I'm going to get 5 million. I'm going to sell for 5 million and then I'm done and then it'll work again. Right. And then of course we, you know, obliterated that number. And as you kind of get older and you grow up a little bit and things change, it's like, all right, I don't think 5 million is my number. And that's, you know, we kind of moved the goalposts there and we upped that to the $25 million valuation. So that's kind of the objective now.

Probably four years, four and a half years.

I mean, honestly, man, that was probably only three years ago, two and a half, three years ago. I think we were probably running six, seven guys at the time and didn't have any like admin office help. Like I did all that. I did all the selling, did all the admin stuff. I still kind of help in the field some as needed, but was mostly out of the field. I think we were running, probably running four or five crews at the time. And, you know, basically. Two or three of those crews were doing landscaping and two or three of those crews were doing lawn maintenance. We were just leasing a little piece of real estate for my parents, actually, the same little shop. We used to do all our motorcycle stuff out of a little half acre lawn. I was just leasing it from them. I had a little, it was a 10 by 20 shed as my office ran power to it. And that was my, I had a port of John outside. So that was our, that was our restaurants. Yeah, that's, that's what it looked like then. That's, honestly, man, it's kind of hard to believe. You don't think about it. It's only been two and a half years ago.

Big time.

I kept the back end stuff super lean. I'm horrible. I'm right there with it, with the equipment and the trucks. Because again, up until honestly, man, probably a year and a half ago, two years ago, when I got to the point that we were getting so big that those numbers were biting me. You know, hey, we're super busy. I don't know if we're making money or not, but my checking account's got more money in it this month than we did last month. So I'm going to go buy $200,000 more worth of trucks and another skid steer because we got a lot worse to do. Yeah. So that side overhead was getting, it was heavier than it should have been. And I think looking back, one thing I've learned really just like the last six months was talking to a good friend of mine and he's like, man, you got to hire the back end first. Like you got to get those systems dialed down and just, you know, what's the client experience look like? You got to get stuff nailed down. And that's something that we, frankly, were absolutely terrible with up until a year ago. Like that's been my focus the last 15 months probably is like we got to. Instead of carrying all this on my back, which frankly is pretty much what I was doing. I had great field guys, but everything else I was carrying. It's like, all right, we got to get some office people in here. We got to get some better software in place. I've got to get better on my numbers or I'm going to run us into the ground. Not that we weren't making money, but just cash flow wasn't great. Because we just have a lot like a whip sheet would be insane and have a lot of money just unbilled. I kind of have months of lawn maintenance that just hadn't been billed yet. I mean, hundreds of thousand dollars. Because this was my focus. My focus was get the jobs done, make the customer happy. Yeah. We definitely came a little ways in the last 18 to 24 months.

So now we ended up about a year ago. We got a 7,000 square foot building with a couple acres all fenced in, gated, all that stuff. So we got into that. I was able to buy that actually, which was killer. I've hired a general manager and I've hired what we call an account manager and a production manager. So each one of those is layers to, you know, customer facing and, you know, kind of dealing with some more of the day-to-day stuff. And like right now, these days, my main focus is recruitment and sales is primarily my day-to-day roles. Okay.

I handle about half the sales. My account manager handles... Probably 95% of our lawn maintenance sales.

Yeah, I'm doing the stuff that's, I mean, I still have some small ones, but most of the stuff that I'm selling is, you know,50,100,200 grand plus.

Yeah, I've known this guy for probably four years now. We got introduced forever ago. He actually came out of Charlotte, which is only about an hour east of us, and knew he was kind of over Charlotte and was wanting to finally get up in the mountains. That's where he was, you know, grew up and raised. And he was in. He'd worked for a handful of different landscaping companies through his career, all in some sort of, you know, operations manager, general manager, account manager, just various roles. So had a wealth of experience, and I finally just put together a good enough offer to get him up here. I do think that that's something that people overcomplicate a lot. I think if you can find a solid leader that's got, I mean, of course, experience is huge, but it's, in my opinion, that's not a have to, and I think everything's pretty trainable.

I had the introductory phase figured out. Like I knew how to sell the work. I knew how to schedule work. I knew how to get the customer to buy and for us to show up and do the work. As we got bigger, one thing that I was lacking in was, I hate to say policing employees, but. I don't know a better term for that, just kind of managing some of the smaller stuff, you know, making sure the trucks are getting washed on the right days, making sure they're coming in on time and not getting a bunch of, you know, unapproved overtime, making sure the trucks are fueled up, equipment's running, you know, inventory's good. And honestly, even some of the financial stuff he's helped me tremendously with. Just, again, kind of some of the more granular stuff that I'm not good at. I'm more of a bigger picture guy. So, you know, he was able to help me with quite a few of those.

yeah yeah we had met a good four or five years ago probably it's

Yeah, I think, and of course, it probably depends on the business and the size and location and all that stuff. In my opinion, those key people, you know, Indeed, ZipRecruiter, you know, Facebook, that's probably not where you're going to find those people. They're going to be found through, you know, networking, connections, relationships, etc.

I agree. And I think you got to be willing to prove yourself out there to, you know, take the extra three or four minutes, maybe to talk to that person or talk to that vendor. That's something I'm horrible for is I'm just, I'm all business. I'm not good at that. But as I've gotten older and kind of realized the importance of all that, I've tried to take the extra step. Cause like I said, that's, that's 90% of my day to day now. So that's, you know, if we need somebody and can't find somebody, then I mean, that falls on me. Like I've not been doing my job good enough. Yeah.

I've heard that.

Yeah. So I get that. I actually had, this was just yesterday morning. I took a lead call and I guess it was last week, but I met him out there. It's property yesterday, new build. And I rolled up like, wow, you're, you're younger than we thought. You sounded like a grumpy old man on the phone. Like, oh my God. I got to work on that, man. I'm sorry.

I haven't. I should, but I haven't.

And I agree. I have this battle with myself a couple times a week. Like I really sometimes think we're doing, we're doing probably too much. You know, we're a mile wide and then sheep. But on the flip side of that, I look at some of these really big successful companies and they're doing the same things. You know, so I'm like, okay, well, if they can do it, why can't we? So anyway, you know, we started out, I think like when you start mowing grass, all these guys like. You know, they're going to ask you, hey, can you trim my bushes or can you put some meat bulge out? Like that kind of goes hand in hand. And then that kind of evolves into like, all right, can you fertilize the yard? Can you reseed the yard? Or, hey, I want to add this flower bed, put a couple of plants in. Like it's kind of all a natural evolution, I guess. And then like for us, as we got into kind of higher tier clientele, I guess, especially on the residential side, it's like, hey, you know, I've got a couple of irrigation leaks. Like, can you, you know, can you fix those for me? I'm like. Yeah, absolutely. It's no problem. No clue how that works. But yeah, absolutely. So self-thought on that stuff. I mean, none of it's rocket science. So, you know, figure it out, teach the guys. And now I don't have to do much with that. You know, went and had, of course, you know, carry a license for some of that stuff. And then the rest of it, in my opinion, kind of goes hand in hand. Like, you know, if you want a fire pit or a patio, stuff like that. And then the pool thing, you know, I grew up watching that show, Insane Pools. Okay. Which I think probably a lot of us have. discovery. And it's like, I just remember thinking, I'm like, it'd be so cool to build something like that. And then probably two or three years ago, you know, as we're doing these awesome patios and landscaping around all those new pools, they're like, yeah, our pool contractor, we weren't really happy with him. Like, we wish you did pools because we'd, you know, we'd hire you. And I'm like, well, yeah. And then it got to the point where like, I was turning down pools. Like, like, hey, why don't you put a pool in? I'm like, no, I'm sorry, we don't do that. Like, we'll do everything else, but we can't pool in. And you turn down enough of those and it's like, you know, maybe we should put some pools in. Like, this is crazy. So I started putting some feelers out there about a year and a half ago. And, you know, there's not a lot of competition in our area. There's just a handful of people that are doing pools. And I personally know of several of them. And they're all just, to be honest, they're kind of getting up there in age. And I'm like, I wonder if somebody's being ready to retire. So anyway, I put some feelers out there and ended up making a deal with a lady that was ready to sell. Been in business 40 years. Ended up acquiring her, I think, January, January, February of 2025. It's about a year ago. And that was kind of the goal. It's like, okay, we're going to, you know, we're going to buy all this experience in one go and just kind of figure it out. And so we kind of got all the 40 years worth of connections and relationships and knowledge and all that stuff. And then it's kind of just took off from there. I think we did 10 Fools last year and I think we've done three so far this year. So it's... It's getting there for sure. I mean, that's been a fun, challenging, but it's been a fun learning curve.

Yeah, it was a pretty small company, but it came with, yeah, it was five employees. And once we got the deal done, you know, we kind of, I did a one-on-one with each one of them and said, hey, you know, love to have you. Here's a, you know, $1, $2, $3 an hour raise. You know, I bought this out because of the people. Like I had no intentions. I'm not really changing a lot. I just wanted to do that. So we ended up kind of getting that done. And then we took all the construction aspect, which they weren't really doing a lot of as they aged out. They were just kind of selling it and giving it away. We brought all that in-house to the landscaping company. And then that's where the full retail store came from because they were running the store. They were doing like, you know, liner changeouts, services, water testing, selling chemicals, all that stuff. So all the new construction, you know. Came under, you know, my guys now and my equipment and landscaping company. And then the pool store with service and sales is its own entity, kind of off to the side.

Yeah, I mean, yes and no. They knew some of it. Again, wanting to acquire them was getting all the connections. And, you know, we got with all their vendors and I was really fortunate. They had one or two guys that that's basically almost their role is to, hey, you know, you sell more product if you develop more pool builders, because then these guys can buy more product. Right. So we were really fortunate. We had a vendor, a vendor, too, that had a guy still comes and helps us if we have a trouble spot. So he's taught me a lot. Other connections that the seller has, have taught me plenty. And then. Again, a lot of just self-learning, which that's where the challenging part comes in. We screwed up plenty, but I think we're getting pretty good at them now.

Yeah, our second, no, third pool last year, we lost 109 grand on them. Oh,

on that one? Yeah, that one, no, don't hurt. Subcontractors primarily, I'm not going to lay the blame on them because it was my fault. But yeah, we had some stone naisons coming out there and doing coping for the pool. And when they went to pour what we call a bond beam, which is just like an eight inch, basically, footer, if you will, around the top of the pool that our coping sits on. You know, we had the pool done. We'd already took it off pressure. It was backfilled at that point. Didn't have water in it, but, you know, it was ready for water, basically. And they came around to the coping, and they used 36-inch form stakes to form that long beam. Well, my plumbing's only 32 inches deep.

Yeah, in six different spots. And, again, my fault not having it marked and not being on pressure. So they got done. The next day, we poured 21 yards of concrete pool deck. And then about two days after that, we had water in the pools and we go turn on the pump and everything. And there's mud everywhere, leaks everywhere, water coming through the concrete. Oh, man. Yeah, we got to demo out 21 yards of fresh concrete and hand dig everything up and replumb the whole pool, re-backfill, re-pour all the concrete. It was fun.

that will convert more

having to produce

I think that was, it was technically our third, I think, last summer.

Yes, that much money still, I mean, it still hurts. It's kind of like everything else. I mean, it's definitely not rocket science. It's not hard to do, but it's also not hard to screw up. So when somebody wants to get into it, I would really encourage it, but I would really, you know, we did it a little different with the acquisition and, you know, maybe some people aren't able to do that. So like, I would almost say, Hey, go work for somebody for six or eight months. That's splitting these things in. Like you'll, you'll learn more in that six or eight months than, I mean, you could ever look up on YouTube. Yeah. That would, that would be my recommendation. And yeah, that was something that I don't think you could ask for better teaching. If you can find somebody that's good, but you can, you know, kind of learn under.

I think it depends. So like, I don't know how familiar you are with it. And I'll have to get too technical or they will waste time, but there's fiberglass pools, there's steel wall liner pools, and there's gunite pools. What I hear the majority of those horror stories is the gunite, just because there's so many moving parts. And typically, at least in my area, it may be different in other areas, but it's all subcontracted. Like you've got one or two guys that are running the pool job, but they're just, it's nothing but subs. And if they're not betting their subs and policing them, and they don't understand enough about the process to make sure it's going correctly. It's pretty easy to get in trouble. And at that point, you know, any quote-unquote fix is going to be pretty crazy expensive. Fiberglass and your steel wall liner is more economical than gunite, and that's primarily what we're doing are those two. And I still hear horror stories about those, but there seems to be a lot less of them because they are certainly easier to put in.

Bits and pieces.

Yeah, it's on a plaster, but yeah.

That is a serious operation. And that's awesome. Also, again, very easy for, you know, a couple of those to go bad. Sure.

don't, Ben. That's what I think we're getting to a point. I've noticed our lead flows. It's not declining, but it's kind of almost getting stale. Like I'm getting enough lead flow to maintain, but not necessarily increase, or at least not increase at the pace I want to. But really the only thing we do, I mean, it's pretty guerrilla style. I mean, we wrap all our trucks. That's huge. That's probably my biggest marketing investment. I think I've ran Google and Facebook paid ads once ever in almost seven years doing this. It's all word of mouth. We're horrible on social media. That's been a push for basically 2026. It's like, okay, we guys, we have to do better. We gotta do better with our website. We gotta do better with social media. Trying to do a lot better with Google reviews, but. You know, we've served hundreds, hundreds of thousands of clients at this point. I think I have 50 or 60 Google reviews. Like it's laughable. So that's a big focus for us. But honestly, it's just, you know, it's word of mouth. I'm not discounting that. Like that's a good thing. But I think if we would have started working the social media and the review aspect of it four years ago, we would be, you know, light years ahead of where we are now. But yeah, very little marketing for us.

Hey, I saw your truck going down the road. Thought I'd call you. Hey, I saw your truck working at the neighbor's house. Thought I'd call you. Hey, I see your trucks everywhere. You guys must be doing really good. We want you to come to our property. Like, it's not a... Now, I've been wrapping my truck since as soon as I was making enough money to grab my trucks. Like, that's just, you know, started with like the sticker on the door and that's better than nothing. But like now we do... It's probably, I don't know, $1,500, $2,000 a vehicle, and we do basically a two-third of a wrap. Something just stands out, and it's like, yeah, those are the red trucks going off the road. People recognize them. They'll run 12 trucks, I think, on the road right now. So, I mean, that's just, it's a rolling billboard.

You can afford $2,000 to wrap your truck. I mean, come on.

One job. It's worth it.

You get one or two jobs and it's like, oh shit, you know, okay, now it's paid for. So now for the next five, seven years, it's three advertisements.

This is off topic, but yeah, the guy that I know is kind of in our space, he's talking about, was at a conference a few months ago. Same thing, one truck, it was wrapped. But that truck was numbered, you know, like it was from a fleet. So I think one side said truck 12, and on the other side of the truck, it was truck 24. So, like, yeah, the guy called and was like, yeah, I saw truck 24 out the road. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, one truck. But it's just, you got to be creative. You're bootstrap.

I've sent a bunch of these out this month. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's a, that's an awesome question. And I don't know, I've done a lot of things wrong. I've done most things wrong. It's going to be super cliche, Brad, but I would say you just can't quit, man. You can't quit. Like that thought has crossed my mind. I mean, there's days even now where it's like, God, it would be so easy just to be, you know, be done with this. But, you know, if I had to quit that first time. I'd have hated myself for it. It's just, you know, kind of just being able to grind through it, frankly. Just don't, like I said, it's super cliche, but just figure it out, man. You know, tomorrow's a new day. The sun's going to come up. Just keep hustling. Keep figuring it out. It'll get better.

super. Yeah, I'm too far in that direction. Like, I'll, you know, I'm going to take this huge bite. I'm probably going to choke on it and pretty much die, but then I'll start coughing and figure it out. you know, when I've got about 10 seconds left to live. Like it's just, but I mean, that's just how it's been since I can remember.

But I was, you know, look, I started this, I was living at home. I had no bills. You know, a lot of people aren't, you know, you may have a family, a mortgage, all this stuff. Like when I took the pool thing on, that was a lot of money. I mean, that was high six figures for that acquisition. I was on decent enough financial place for like, I knew I was going to take a hit and I could probably stomach it. And, you know, I had a little boy at home and a wife, but, you know, just tiny little house, slow mortgage. So it's going to be different for everybody on the risk scale. But, yeah, I just never, I don't know. I mean, I heard the same guy that I was talking about that was wrapping the trucks, you know, with the 12 and the 24 also made a great point. You know, you got to break a few legs to make an omelet. And it doesn't really make any sense, but it's basically like you can't be a perfectionist. You just can't. You'll never get anywhere. You'll stay stuck. And it's like, look, it's not going to be perfect. I mean, man, I go back and look at jobs we did three or four years ago, and it's like, this is horrendous. Like, I don't know how they paid us for this. But it's just, you can't live in that world. Just do better, treat the people right, you know, be fair, be honest, be open, be communicative. And you just constantly improve. If you can get that little 1% better every day, it's just, it'll compound. It'll get there.

100%. As a John Maxwell quote, it's a fail forward fast. It's like, I mean, you're going to fail every day, but fail, figure out why you failed so you don't do it again and then go on to the next thing and do all that quickly. It's just keep it rolling because you're going to screw up to this day, every single day. But it's just, I was talking to a good mentor of I'm not too long ago. And it's like, look, as the businesses get bigger and you scale and, you know, maybe you're doing 20 million revenue,30 million revenue, whatever the case may be, you're still kind of dealing with the same problems, so to speak. You're just a lot better at handling those problems. And I think that strikes home. I mean, at least for me personally, there's stuff that happens almost on the daily here that would have paralyzed me even three, four years ago. And now it's just, I mean, it's just. Part of it is what it is. Move on. No point dwelling on it. Don't waste the brain space.

hundred percent. I had this conversation with the, uh, it was actually, there was another podcast last week and it was like, you know, Hey, looking back, would you do it all over again? And half of me is like, there's no effing way. And then the other staff of me, like, well, yeah, I knew what I do now. Yeah. I probably would. Cause you know, instead of taking it six or seven years, I could probably do a year or two. Oh

I'd say I'd probably have two-part answer. I think the biggest thing, and it's, again, it's going to sound like you're beating a dead horse, but it's knowing your numbers, knowing your break-ins, you know, your hourly rates, your daily rates, your weekly rates, what do you got to do here, what do you got to do there? And, you know, I thought I had a good handle on that stuff. And, again, as we scaled and, you know, Like, yeah, you know, we lost five grand on this job. Not the end of the world. Well, now we're talking, oh, shit, we lost a hundred grand or we lost 200 grand. Know those like, and then not only do you need to know them, but like, hey, I just added two more trucks to the fleet. Okay. Make sure your overhead is getting adjusted accordingly because it's just increased. That was something I wasn't doing at all. So make sure, you know, everything's kind of staying in sync as you scale and making sure you're, you know, up to date on your most current costs and overhead and numbers. That would be a big part of it. I think if I'd done a better job that five or six years ago, I could have sent myself a lot of pain and heartache. And again, I'm going to go back to what I said earlier. The second part of that is just push through it. And then you just got to grind it out. It's like it's, I don't care how you sugarcoat it, even these overnight success stories. Well, that overnight success story probably started 10 plus years ago. So it's just, you just got to put in the word. And I see that with so many people, you know, they're in something for six or nine months. I mean, I've even got buddies that have started their own little thing. cool product, good work ethic. And then, you know, six months down the road, they're, you know, making nothing peanuts. And it's like, oh, this doesn't work. I'm like, dude, like you just like stick with that for two years and then tell me that or five years. Like you're, it's just, we live in that world of instant gratification and I'm sorry, but that's just, it just doesn't work like that. In my opinion, I don't know of a single, especially blue collar business that works like that. Like it just, it takes a little bit of grind. to get to any point of success.

Man, nothing comes to mind. Just... Just say, anybody's out there probably having a bad day, bad week, anything like that. Just, sub's going to come tomorrow. Just keep getting at it. It's going to get better. Just, just say after it, man. Don't, don't, don't quit. Don't give up. Just, just keep putting in the work. It'll, it'll come. It'll get there. I've got a long way to go, but like I said, I've wanted to quit a thousand times over. And every time I'm just, I'm super glad I did and we made it through it. And every, every time that happens, you, you grow and you learn, you know, and it just keeps getting a little bit easier and a little bit easier and a little bit easier. And it's just. Just levels to the game, man. You just got to make sure you stay in the games.

Yeah, there's a ton. I just finished yesterday one of Alex Formozzi's first books. It's $100 million leads. That was killer. Short, straight, to the point. That was a super good one. It was a little, some people like them, some people don't, but I'm a big Grant Cardone guy. 10X by him, that was one of the very first books I read, and that kind of really changed my perspective on a lot of things. So if somebody's getting in, that's just, that was a big eye-opener for me. Any of the Kiyosafi books are super good. I don't know if you're familiar, you're probably, you're in the military, you're probably familiar with Jocko Willink. Oh, yeah. Extreme ownership. Extreme ownership, that one was, for me, that was phenomenal. That would probably be just off the cuff. That's the, unless three or four right out of the gate that are just killer books, I'm not doing it.

Yeah, I think that's awesome and that's a great idea. That's something I need to look into.

There's one more, Brad, I just thought of that was a little outside the sandbox, but I knocked this one out around Christmas time. Anne's Purse by Jesse Cole. It's actually the guy that started the Savannah Bananas. Yeah. That one was, I mean, that shot to probably the top five favorite for me. That one was killer.

Banana Balls.

Yes. Yes. Also a good one.

I certainly appreciate you, Brad. Appreciate you having me on. And yeah, really enjoyed it, man.

Yeah, absolutely. Me personally, it's probably just the Instagram. That's chrismcmanis151. And then the landscaping pages, like I said, we're trying to do a lot better on that stuff. That's gclandscapinginc on all social media platforms. But we are doing better, posting some cool stuff, pools, kitchens, patios, lawns, stuff like that. So, yeah, absolutely check it out. If you have any questions, if I can help anybody, just shoot me a DM. Happy to talk.

I don't think so. I'll be honest. I don't think so.

Awesome. Yeah, check them out.

Okay, cool. Yeah, check them out.