EP34: Your Mental Health Is Not A Joke

I got some shocking statistics for you, bro. You know how I like to do this.

53 people out of 100,000 suicides are contractors or... guys in construction, females in construction, just construction workers in general. And that stat may not seem like a lot, but it's four times the rate of the general population. That's according to the CDC in August 2021. So think about that. Construction workers are four times more likely to commit suicide than the general population. People work in retail and restaurants and all that stuff. And then to compound that, become the contractor, the person who employs all those that take all the extra risk and stuff. That suicide rate number is staggering to me. It blew me away.

No, it didn't show that. I mean, construction as a whole is a pretty big, it's pretty vast, right? I mean, there's a huge number of people that are in that. that fall into that category. I just think that the number for the business owners is a lot smaller. But if you think about it, the risk involved as the owner, it's got to be, I'd imagine it's higher, right? But construction as a whole, I mean, think about all the solopreneurs, all the solo contractors. There's tens and thousands, hundreds of thousands of contractors that run business on their own. And then a great majority of them are one, two, three, four, five, six-man operations. You know what I mean?

Well, I'm certain it would. Honestly, it's like, I wouldn't necessarily take them out of the equation, but if they had the right tools and strategies and tactics, and if they were tactical in the way they do their estimating and they ran their business correctly, if they had the resources to do it right, it becomes less stressful. And I think that's a big part of it. And when you go back to the 96% of construction companies fail in the first decade, and I know, I mean, we're going to burn that into the ground. I want to change that number, right? That's such a staggering statistic in itself that the stresses that come involved to be successful, they're translating to mental health. They're translating to suicide. They're translating to depression and medications and all that stuff, right? So, yeah, could you take them out of that environment and take the stress away? They probably would be healthier and not be in such a bad shape. But the same could be said if they just had the right resources and the right knowledge. totally change the trajectory of what they're doing and their mental health. Oh,

Yeah, no, I totally get that. I totally see that. But that's part of the struggle and that's part of the trials of becoming a contractor. You're oftentimes forced into that. category, you know, into that corner to either take on other work, diversify into things that maybe you don't love as much and then create more stress and then have to hire more people. And so like, there's always that, there's a balance right there. So I think that, I think a lot of contractors are pigeonholed into making those decisions because they don't understand business, right? They're not, they're not marketing correctly to attract their true passion. And so they end up doing a job for someone and they're like, oh, hey, you did such a good job on my cabinets. Will you remodel my bathroom and do the tile? And if they don't have anything in the pipeline, they're like, yeah. So it comes back to knowledge, right? But also it comes back to stress management and all that.

Well, that goes to exactly what you were saying earlier. It's like you're in that environment and then you're stressed out and mentally you're in a tough spot and then you removed yourself from it. Luckily, you had the wherewithal to realize that, right? And so it's funny because you're like, you love the snow, but you're like talking about vacationing in Florida when it snows. But like, if you really love the snow, it's like, okay, we had this big snow event. Like I'm thinking, my mind was like, hey, I want to go out and make snowmen with the family and the kids. in the neighborhood, I want to have a snowball fight and I want to go, I'm going to go snowboarding. The snow just hit. And then you're like, you can't even enjoy what you love about the snow because now you have to go manage the snow. So that's exactly what you were talking about earlier.

It's a good thing. She doesn't listen to the podcast.

Bro, trust me, man. I, I know a lot of guys in the snowplow business. I know a lot of. a lot of pawn guys take that kind of job on. And, you know, it makes sense and it is fantastic money, but at what point is your mental health and money, you know, where's the balance? Like I got all this money, but shit, I'm in the fucking shitter. My brain, my mental health, I'm depressed. You know, like I don't care how much money you have. If you're depressed, the money doesn't matter. And if you don't get to see your family, the money doesn't matter. So that's when there's, you got to find the balance. So I think that's an extreme case because when you take that type of business on, You know, you know, you're dealing with, you know, emergent events like, hey, people aren't going to be able to get to the grocery store. People aren't going to be able to get to work and they're relying on you and your resources to an ability to move snow quickly. You know, like that's where the money comes in.

Well, yeah, I mean, having the right equipment is always paramount, right? But I mean, I don't want to stick on snow plowing too much. But what really the take home from this is, is, you know, you were doing one facet of construction that like really moved you. And then winter came and you're like, hey, I need to maybe diversify. And then you take on something else. And then it creates stress. And then you have, sometimes contractors get caught into the snowball effect. And I use that pun intentionally. Yeah. They get caught into that snowball and all of a sudden, you know, five years go by and now they're on opiates and they, you know, their wife left them and they work, you know, nonstop. And, you know, the kids don't even know who they are. And then they're like, what happened to my life? You know, they're in the gutter, mental health shit. Now they're getting antidepressants. They're working so many hours. They are not eating well. They're eating fast food. All of a sudden, that's a huge part of their diet. They put on 40 pounds. I mean, it just compiles. It's like compound interest into the darkness.

I think that's paramount as well. I want to set the foundation just a little bit more because I thought a lot about a podcast and I don't know how to put it together, but it's like if I would have known what I had to do to get where I'm going, and I think we've talked about that in one of our videos or podcasts or whatever. It's like... Had I known what I had to do to become the boss running a construction company with multiple employees below, if I would have known that, I probably wouldn't have been so excited to start to get trying. And what I mean by that is like, as an employer, and for 20 years, I've had a lot of people come in and out of my business. Currently, I have a staff of 17. I mean, that's a lot of emotions, a lot of hormones. It's a lot of... personality types and so forth. Dude, I have to be people's friends, father figures, brother figures, mentors. I've had employees go through divorces, had employees go through hard breakups with significant others when they weren't necessarily married. I've had employees that aren't suicidal. And this is another little aspect that I want to bring into as you as an employer in construction, in contractors. I got goosebumps running across me right now because like I've witnessed my employees in suicidal states and talked them off cliffs and, you know, I'm meeting with them at two in the morning and hugging them and giving them that support system, you know? So it's like, you know, you know, when I started thinking about this podcast, I was thinking about myself. I was thinking about you. I was thinking about our members and, and helping them. But what about the people that they touch? What about their employees and people that are in their subcontractors and stuff like that? This is a crisis. It's like, you know, you're four times more likely than the general population. The people that you're around every single day are suffering with these kind of things. And so had I known that I had to be a psychologist and all those other different things, I might've been like, I don't want any shit of that. I don't want part of that. But I was, I'm here I am now. And I've just grown to like learn it and just accept it.

Not necessarily.

Well, no, I mean, that makes it easier for me. It doesn't mean that I like it.

Yeah, it's heavy. I've said this before and I certainly don't want to like try and take limelight or anything like that. But I feel like because I've gone through this, I feel like I can speak with a little bit of context. But in 2015, I was diagnosed with cancer and I am a stressful kind of personality. Like I want everything to be right. You've accused me of being a perfectionist and I want things right.

Okay, okay. So if you are a perfectionist, think of the stress level. Most entrepreneurs and craftsmen do have this level of perfectionism. And that is one identifying component to stress, right? But I shut down my construction company, my construction company division in 2015. I took two and a half years off because I knew, my wife and I knew like, hey, I have to get healthy. How can we eliminate stress? We all know, you know, stress and cancer are like two peas in a pod. So I knew that I had to shut down the construction company. And then I shut it down for two and a half years, got healthy, got better. It changed my mental health, the way I look at things. You know, dude, when I get run into problems now, I'm like, it's going to be fine. We'll figure it out. Don't trip. No need to get cancer over this and freak out. Let's just fix it.

But I wasn't arguing. You were. Because I'm like, come on, let's get through this. And so then I had to get on and cry to you a little bit and fucking shed a tear to get you to fucking break down and go, okay, cool. Let's get over this shit.

Yeah, boy.

I'm glad you asked, Brad. I got some notes right here. Should we cover them?

Okay. So I just asked permission, bro. Check it out. So here's some signs. And so this is interesting because I know a lot of our audience are solopreneurs or they have just one or two man operation, but these are the signs of suicidal tendencies. And that's an extreme of mental health, but it's all leading down that dark, dark rabbit hole, right? So here's some of the signs and whether you can, I hope you're self-aware enough to realize that you might be experiencing some of these, but think about your employees. Think about your subcontractors. Think about all your contracting buddies, right? I have a lot of contractor buddies. So some of the signs are low productivity, low self-esteem, having trouble communicating with people, substance abuse, easily agitated, kind of like throwing safety to the wind, like being a little bit more like... you know, just like let the self, not as aware of safety precautions or like, oh, it's no big deal. We'll just get over it. The worst thing can happen. I'll die. Like, right. So not considering safety as much. Segregation is something that you would look at. Like if you have an employee that normally would have lunch with you or maybe have a beer after work with you and they're like all of a sudden gone, you know, they don't want to have lunch with you. Segregation is important. And then absenteeism is an important factor as well. If all of a sudden they're not showing up to work. You know, so like you could have a subcontractor. You're like, I can't get him on the phone. He's not communicating with me. You know, he said he'd be here on such and such day. He didn't show up. It's like, you know, immediately we go into that mindset like, this asshole, he was supposed to be here. He's a piece of shit. I'm not going to give him another job. And like, just taking a deep breath and go, is this guy, is he depressed? Like, maybe I should call him up and go like, hey, bro, are you all right? Is there anything I can do to help you? Instead of just calling him up and chewing his ass out. Like, dude, you were supposed to be here. Maybe the approach would be like, hey, are you all right? Is the family okay? I'm just worried about you. I was really hoping you'd be here yesterday and you weren't. It just got me worried about you. And that's maybe an approach that you can take for those kind of people. So it's kind of a, those are the signs. What do we do with them now?

How many of those, like if you have four or five of these things, like you're, this could be probably, you could be in depression.

You know, dude, there's a thing. It's like, I didn't know I was going to be a business coach when I started. You know, I might not have even got started if I were there. Like, hey, when you, when you grow up and you're in the business for a couple of decades, you're going to, you're going to be a business coach. You'd be like, I don't. I don't know if I signed up for that, right? So, I mean, these are important questions. So I have another document I want to talk about. I got to look it up real quick. What people think support looks like and what support actually is. I'd like to cover that stuff. So like, you know, what people think support sounds like, it's like, oh, you'll be fine, Brad. Don't trip. You're going to be good. You're a badass. Like, right? Oh, don't worry, Brad. It's not a big deal. Like, a lot of times people think that that's what support should sound like. Right? But does that make sense?

There's light at the end of the tunnel, bro. Like that kind of stuff, right? So a lot of people think that that's what support sounds like. And this could be part of the problem, you know, that why the suicide rate is so high, right? And because contractors are mostly macho. Even the girl contractors, I know, they're fucking macho. You know, like they're badasses.

Exactly. On the outside. Exactly. But inside, there might be this turmoil.

Yeah, no, I get it for sure. So can I share with you some of the things that like what support actually sounds like, like what it should sound like? And maybe this is a good thing to share for people that know someone. hopefully someone will say this to you if you're the one that's depressed. Right? Go for it. So, what this could really sound like is like, you said one of these lines to me the other day, bro. I just wanted to let you know that.

I'm just saying that it means you care about me. You act all tough, like you don't give a shit about me, but you love me.

No, you're supposed to say. You said one of these lines to me. I'm just going to let you know that. Oh,

So, like, here's something that's like, Hey, I'm sure that's really difficult. Like if, like you recognize, like they're struggling with difficult time, not just going, Hey, you'll be fine. So like that, right. Or something like, Hey, how, how can I help? Right. Cause sometimes people are just like, they don't want to be a part of it. Like, right. Hey, how can I help you with through this? Too many times people are just too selfish. They don't want to deal with your problems. Right. So the one that you said to me the other day was, thank you for telling me. Thank you for sharing that with me. Right. Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. One thing would be like, hey, this is going to pass. Like, this will pass. We're going to get through this, you know? Another one thing would be, I'm here for you. I can't imagine how that feels because, you know, sometimes people are sharing thoughts with you. Like, you really can't imagine. Like, I can't share like the loss of a child. Like, I can't even imagine that, right? And that could put people spiraling into a really dark spot. Sometimes just a hug. I know you don't like to hug people, but for me, I'd like to hug them.

Not yourself, bro.

Or like agreeing with like, hey, you're not alone. You know, just simple things like that. You know, I think too many times, those are some of the things that you could say and use with someone that might be in a dark spot and you do want to help them off the cliff.

I mean, this is going to spin back to mental toughness.

Okay. I know some hard, hard-headed bitches, just so you know.

You're like, okay, yeah. I do, I do. I know some hard-headed bitches. But so, I'm from California, bro. Come on. So, but listen, what do you mean? Where are you going with this? So like, I want to talk mental toughness. I mean, so here's the thing. self-awareness is going to be important. Like you have to realize you're going in that spot, right? I mean, there's a couple of different facets. If you're in that dark spot, maybe we can shine some light and help someone realize it and help show them the ladder and the conduit out, right? But there's also a factor I think I don't want to discard is like the fact that people just getting started there that... They're not in that spot, but they could go that dark, they could take that rabbit hole down the dark hole if they're not aware. And if we can kind of shine some light on some things that will take them to that spot, if we can share that, then that's a good thing too, right? So there's so many levels of this.

Yeah, this is heavy, man. I mean, so there's psychology in here. There's counseling. A lot of things like that I think are probably paramount. I imagine at some point medication is important. I'd like to believe that there's other ways besides medication, whether it's nutrition and fitness could help pull you out. But I think too many people just go straight to medication because they want a pill and they don't want to eat right and work out, right?

Right. So whether it's a pill or that's going to sit down and talking to a psychologist, that's one thing. But sometimes it's like, you know what? Quit eating like shit. Dive into your numbers. Hire a coach that'll help you with your business, show you how to make money correctly, teach you how to talk to your customers, get some fitness going on, take care of yourself and put in smart work. Dude, like... I used to play guitar for a lot, like for hours on end, but I wasn't, I wasn't trained. Like I could literally play guitar for eight hours and work on this guitar solo and shit like that. But I was never really like, I think I could have been a pretty good guitar player, but I never made it because I never got coaching. I never, I never, no one ever trained me. I didn't get like professional teaching. And many, many years after I gave up my rockstar music career, one of my dear friends who's a fantastic guitar player. He's like, dude, you have to, when you practice, you have to know what you're practicing for. You can't just practice a guitar solo for eight freaking hours, you jackass.

Well, you know, you don't understand the foundation of that riff. Like, why did that riff come together and why does it sound so good? Like, those are the things I never really learned. You know, I was just like self-taught. I was poor growing up. I didn't have any way to hire teachers and do that stuff. I just sat in my room and played guitar. Yeah.

This is crazy. And I'm just going to tell you right now, don't you dare fucking push back on me right now. I'm going to. I'll come through

and I'll strangle you.

We're already pushing on 40 minutes and you're going to be like, we got to stop. It's been 40 minutes. I'm just, you're going to keep, we're going to go until this is exhausted.

care. We're going to go until it's exhausted. I'm not going to take no for an answer. Listen, when we shot that video, the 96% of why contractors fail. And we shot that video, we were drawing on that whiteboard. And then we showed the RIP and we drew a little gravestone. Dude, does that just shock you right now? Does that just punch you in the face? Like literally contractors die right then. They're dead. Died, killed themselves.

That's what I'm saying. This is such an important topic. Like I think it's crazy. I do want to share a story with you. And I hate to bring up the cancer thing again. I don't want to fucking like live on that, but. I told my wife, we were looking for a ranch. We were looking to buy a new place. And when I figured out I had cancer, my wife's like, hey, let's just batten down the hatches and let's just work on you and let's not try and move. And I told her like, I'm going to fucking get you that ranch if it's the last thing I do. And I'm going to get you where you need to be. And then I can leave this world a happy man, right? Luckily, amen, I'm in a good spot. The doctor cleared me. We got a new ranch. We're in a new place. doctor tells me to go take over the world again. And so this is a good spot for me. So like I restarted my construction company in like halfway through 2018. Like I'm like, okay, I'm going to start this back up. And so, I mean, it takes a lot to rebuild, right? I had to like let everyone know I'm back. I had to like reestablish things and like, so get going again. I never fully shut down because I kept doing all my warranties and callbacks and services and stuff like that. I had a team doing that with me, but I started going so hard in 2018 and 2019. And that's when we got this ranch. And then we were building out the ranch for our business here. And my wife grabbed me one time and shook me and looked me in the face. And she's like, you need to slow down. You need to take up a hobby again because you're working too hard. You're working too long. You're working too much. I'm worried about you. And I was like, Okay. All right. So then I set up a full tank, full garage, full aquariums and a full bonsai arena. So like I'm doing my poppies again, but God, I mean, I'm telling you like what it's done for my mental health is insane. Like being able to slow down and focus on things that make me happy.

Yeah, dude. When you're like, you're blowing those rounds off. It's amazing.

I fucking hate you right now.

I think that's an important factor. And I want to share with you one of the coolest coaching gigs that I've paid for in a long, long time. I got onto it with Jesse Itzler. I don't know if you know who Jesse Itzler is, but look him up on Instagram. But I got into his, I think it's called the Big Ass Calendar. He has a couple of different names. Sorry, I don't have his branding figured out yet. But Jesse Itzler, his whole thing is like, You have to plan for adventure and excitement in your life. Because if you don't do that, your calendar is just going to fill up automatically with deadlines and construction dates and consultations and vendor meetings and all these things that don't really matter. So if you don't plan for those adventures in your life and create excitement and adventure in your life... your life will get filled up with nonsense and bullshit. And all of a sudden you're going to be 75 years old and you're going to be filled with regret. So you talked about all this stuff and it's going to come back to money. And I know money can't buy happiness, but if you're doing the things that you love for a price that you need to live a good life, then you'll have the money to do the things you will. And so you got to create that vacation. You have to say, hey, And babe, in four months, we're going to do this with the kids. We're going to go here. We're going to have some adventure. We're going to hike this mountain. We're going to go in the ocean, whatever it is that excites you. And you have to deliver on that promise with the people around you that you love and your own heart and soul. And those are the types of things that make being a business owner worthwhile.

For the same money.

Or per hour. Yeah, for sure.

So I do want to recap some things a little bit. I want to identify a couple of things. I want to talk about, you know, maybe how to recognize and how to pull things out. But, you know, the reason that we're in this podcast together right now, Brad, is because my son was, I don't know, probably in 2015. No, it was probably 2018 or 19. He talked about podcasts and how he was into podcasts. And so... I had never even spent time podcasting or listening to podcasts. I didn't really look into them, but I started listening to podcasts because of my son. And Joe Rogan was like one of the first guys that I really listened to, of course. I mean, he's a freaking legend in the podcast world, right? But one of the things that he says, you know, over and over and really resonated with me back when I first heard it, and it's still every time I hear it really hits me home. It's like, if you don't put yourself through moments where you need the grit, like if you don't put yourself in those weird, situations, whether it's working out or, you know, hiking something or, or learning something new and being shitty at something, you know, like some people are too afraid to try something new because they're going to look like an idiot because they don't know they're really shitty at it. Right. So it's like, I'm only going to do the stuff that I'm good at, you know? So it's like, you have to put yourself out there and give yourself the opportunity to fail and to be put in a position where you're sweating and you're. out of breath. And, you know, like it's the moments like that, that help create some mental toughness and grit. And I think that contractors get caught in that chasing money and, and chasing jobs and, and they lose that. And I think that's like, that's really the beginning of the rabbit hole that takes you to the dark spot. So like put yourself in those things forcefully, like do it on purpose.

You know, I read Relentless and I love that book. I don't remember that. I don't remember that trailer in there, but I could be wrong too.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, I mean, so there's something you can do actively. be putting yourself into challenging positions. Run a marathon, run a 5K, do an Ironman or Ironwoman or whatever you want to do. Think about those kind of things, right? Put yourself in those tough positions because then when you have a difficult client or your truck breaks down, you kind of get over it. You know what kind of helps me? If I feel like I really did something stupid, like I made a bad decision, if... my crew, who is an extension of me, like if my crew does something stupid, it's my fault. You know, it's my business. I trained them. I put them out there in the world. I always think like, well, bro, the bridge didn't collapse, you know, and that the bridge didn't fall down. Like there's people that have made mistakes that the gravity of the situation is far beyond what we're doing here. You know, I always think like it could have been worse. You know, and I don't mean to take light of things that go poorly. You know, I want to take responsibility and correct them. But I always go like, it could be worse. I was thinking about that Jocko video. Like, oh, you got screwed over? Good. Oh, you didn't get what you needed? Good. Like, that mentality etches in me.

I think about, you know, things going poorly. And a couple times I'm like, bro, I could literally stand on the side of the freeway and make this much money to cover that. Like, it's not a big deal. Just like you said, like we have so much opportunity. And even in the darkest hours, we'll be standing on the highway trying to be a... you know, a panhandler, you could make enough money to get by. Like, it's insane.

For sure. I do want to touch on suicide for just a second. We're going to go a little bit longer. I don't know if you probably don't know who Tommy Vexed is. You know who Tommy Vexed is?

Lead singer for Bad Wolves. He's a fantastic singer, by the way. And I listened to a podcast with him on the MFCO project with Andy Frisella. And he talked about His story is amazing. You really got to listen to it. He's got a twin brother. His brother killed him and left him for dead. And then they brought him back to life. And his brother's in prison. And it's this crazy, crazy story. But he was in a really dark spot, Tommy was. And he was literally on his way to commit suicide. And on his way to commit suicide, his phone rang. And he didn't recognize the number. And he just looked at this phone. And he picked the phone up. And it was a guy that he didn't know really well that reached back out to him because he was going to commit suicide. He's like, Tommy, I'm in a dark spot. I'm done. I'm going to dupe myself in right now. And Tommy was like, where are you at right now? I'm going to come and see you. Just let me come and see you, see if we can work this out. And Tommy dropped killing himself to go. talk to this guy. I never told him that he was going to do it himself. He was just like, I'm going to go save this guy and then I'll kill myself tomorrow. Could you understand? I mean, is this, I'm not making this shit up, bro. And so he talks this guy off the ledge. He's like, look, bro, just get through this and just get through tomorrow. And then we'll talk about it tomorrow and we'll see how you feel about it. And then... Over the weeks coming up after that, Tommy basically kept talking this guy off the cliff. And he's like, well, as soon as I finished making this guy not kill himself, I will go kill myself. And in turn, rescued himself. It's really an amazing story. I would recommend anyone listen, try and hit that podcast up because it's super, super powerful. You know, there's, you got to find a passion and a reason why to stick around. And hopefully you don't get to that point. If you are in a dark spot like that, Brad and I are real serious about that. Like hit us up in the DM. I'll give you my phone number. I'll come and drive out. I'll see you. Whatever it takes. We want you to realize that this shit is fucking hard. Being a contractor. It's no joke. It could put you in a tough spot. And I think that reaching out for help, whether it's a psychologist or... reaching out to your friend and having a cup of coffee, calling someone up saying hi. Hiring a coach, it doesn't have to be us, man. I don't care. Hiring a coach to help you manage your business better and have a better understanding of it. Most contractors listening to this probably didn't go to contractor school because there's not really a good one out there. But whether you hire a coach that resonates with you or hiring us to help you control your business. understand your numbers, control your key performance indicators and help you understand that stuff. It helps create just an easier spot to where you really kind of understand what's going on and makes your business easier and take some of that stress away. And we can help with that or other psychologists or... We're not psychologists, but other coaches can help you see through that muddy water.

Who's Dakota Meyer?

Dakota Meyer, who's that?

I didn't catch that podcast.

That was amazing. Shit.

That talk fucked me up. I went on the beach and just walked by myself for an hour. My phone was blowing up. I remember that.

Yeah, it jacks you up. Look, I don't care how bad you've screwed things up and how dark of a spot you're in. Someone's been in a darker, worse spot than you, and you can pull this shit off. If you have to reach for help, don't be so proud to do that. We've all asked for help. I've got coaching. Brad's got coaching. The best of the best is reaching out for help. And that's why they're the best.

Thank you so much for catching the podcast and I, this is probably the most serious podcast we put out and I'm going to ask you for the most serious request. Please share the podcast, share Hammer and Grind, the movement that we're trying to push out here to help out contractors. It's not just about making money. It's about making good choices and putting people in better spots and creating motions that will help families for decades to come. So do your part, make the world a better place. Share the Hammer and Grind podcast. We'll catch you on the next day.